Authentic Achievements with Special Guest Shawn Lesser
Resilience and Real Talk: Shawn Lesser on Overcoming Anxiety and Depression
In this powerful episode of Authentic Achievements, your host, Kim-Adele Randall, is joined by a remarkable guest whose story will inspire and motivate you. At 54, Shawn Lesser is not just a father of two and a seasoned business leader; he’s also a survivor. After facing severe anxiety and depression in early 2023, Shawn went through two treatment centres, earning the nickname “Shaky.” Yet, instead of succumbing to these challenges, Shawn embraced his inherent resilience and humour to overcome them. Now, he’s dedicated to sharing his journey to inspire and support other men facing similar struggles.
Guest Bio:
Shawn Lesser: With over three decades of experience in finance, Shawn co-founded the industry’s first Impact Investing Investment Bank, Big Path Capital, which has been lauded by Barrons as “Impact Investing’s Investment Bank.” His impressive track record includes advising and collaborating with over 200 Impact Funds and over 1,000 Limited Partners, and organizing over 50 investment convenings across the US and Europe.
Key Discussion Points:
– Personal Journey: Shawn’s candid recounting of his struggles with anxiety and depression and the strength he found to overcome them.
– Mental Health Advocacy: The founding of THE REAL Mental Health Foundation and its mission to improve the mental health of men and their families.
– Professional Achievements: Shawn’s significant impact in finance, particularly impact investing.
– Vision for the Future: THE REAL’s goal is to create a global community supporting men’s mental health and well-being, aiming to transform societal norms and the mental healthcare conversation.
Call to Action:
If you found Shawn’s story as inspiring as we did, please like, share, rate, and review Authentic Achievements on your favourite podcast platform. Your support helps us bring more incredible stories like Shawn’s to a wider audience.
Connect with Shawn Lesser:
– THE REAL Mental Health Foundation: https://www.therealwebsite.com
– LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawnlesser
Tune in to hear how adversity can lead to meaningful change and be inspired to tackle your challenges with resilience and humour.
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Transcript:
[Music]
0:06[Applause] hello and welcome to today’s episode of authentic achievements where it’s my
0:12absolute privilege to be joined by The Fabulous Sean lesser Sean welcome thank you great to be here we’re so looking
0:20forward to sharing your story with our listeners but before we get stuck in to your journey let me share with them a
0:26little bit more about who you are so Sean at 54 is not just a father of Two and a seasoned business leader he’s a
0:32Survivor who’s faced severe anxiety and depression in early 2023 Sean’s Journey
0:38took him through two treatment centers earning him the nickname shaki through resilience and humor he overcame his
0:44struggles and is now dedicated to helping other men facing similar challenges professionally Shan
0:49co-founded big path Capital the industry’s first impact investing Investment Bank recognized by Barons as
0:56impact investing Investment Bank with over three decades Finance he collaborated on more than 200 impact
1:03funds and with over a thousand limited partners Sean also founded the real
1:08mental health Foundation aiming to improve men’s mental health and well-being Sean what an amazing journey
1:15at you’ve already done so much um but could you start by sharing with us a little bit about your journey please
1:22sure sure I’m happy to so maybe I just do a little rewind there’s kind of two sides to it there’s there’s the the
1:30resume and then the story right so you talked a little bit about the resume but yeah 30 years in finance yeah and
1:36started the first impact investing Investment Bank and that’s all terrific and I did that for 16
1:41years to build up the company but then there’s the story so the story um it was
1:47September 22 I was depressed I was having trouble eating I was having trouble sleeping I lost 40 pounds which
1:54is amazing but I was not on a diet it’s not not the best diet I’m so happy to
1:59say I’ve gained it all back not really but I mean and and more and and then um
2:05this depression it was it was growing and then it was December 14th it was a
2:10Wednesday I was on a zoom work call and basically kind of came to a head where I
2:18I had like a full mental breakdown where I I couldn’t really speak and my brain wasn’t working and I was telling my wife
2:26you know I don’t want to be here anymore please freaking kill me so you know most wives don’t want to hear that no some
2:32might some might I don’t know but uh but not my wife so you know
2:38what do you do with someone like that right um and we didn’t know so live here
2:46in Atlanta went to uh Emory Hospital went to the uh went to the the emergency
2:52a here in in the US and they rolled out someone basically on a zoom machine and
2:57ask me all kinds of questions and they said do you want to get checked into the psych ward now I have no clue what that
3:06means but I know I I want to go somewhere because you’re kind of like I don’t want to go home I don’t want to be
3:12here so so I ended up in the psych uh in Atlanta which it’s pretty similar all
3:19over the world I think which is an interesting place which I knew nothing about so I had packed up my bag I had
3:25packed a sound machine an eye mask uh my computer and I and I marched off and I I
3:32I signed my name to check myself in but I didn’t really realize the next thing that happened is they check you because
3:39if you’re in that place that’s a place you don’t hurt yourself there’s no mask or sound machine or or computer there uh
3:47it’s a place you don’t hurt yourself or you hurt others so I found myself one day uh running my my firm the next day
3:56I’m basically in in the psych wart wow yeah yeah yeah I can’t even begin to
4:04imagine what what that must have been like I mean that that sense of of the
4:10unknown whilst knowing that you need help and and such a contrast so quickly
4:17for you from you know running it one day to the next and being in this brand new environment I I can’t begin to imagine
4:24but I’m sure that I’m sure you went through a whole Myriad of emotions and
4:30feelings as you went through that yeah so I remember being you know checking in
4:35they checked me I like a string in my pants to like you can’t have a string I think I had a pen or pencil you can’t
4:41have that and then I I I I checked into my room and there was like a small bed
4:47and I remember looking up and um at the doctor offices at least in the US they
4:53have these faces like Smiley less Smiley you know super smile like where you fit on this on this chart and I was looking
4:59I’m like what what the hell am I doing here so I was just going through my head
5:05like what what is going on yeah so I I was there uh for three days
5:14I got out I went home um so I’m yeah I was 54 then I’m 55 now I got two kids I
5:21got a 15 and 16 year old and my wife was home and then my mom she’s 82 she lives
5:28in Long Island New York so she came down south where I live in Atlanta uh so my
5:33wife and my mom were on a 24-hour Shan watch basically taking yeah 12 hour
5:40shifts on and off uh and then it was uh it was January 3rd I was feeling a
5:45little bit better I was like okay I’m going to go back to work right at the company that I co-founded now in
5:52business I I had partners and sometimes things don’t work out with Partners so my partners ended up buying me out of
5:58the company that’s terrific I got some money wonderful but my company was my
6:04whole existence it was my whole life it was my whole identity so when that
6:09happened I fell deeper into depression and I can also just kind of tell you is since I had the real and other stuff and
6:17so many people have this similar type of feeling it doesn’t necessarily it’s kind of loss of
6:23identity if you’re in the police and you’re not in the police you’re in the military you’re you know your kids going
6:29to col I mean just that is a constant story that that I hear it’s like I was on this
6:36path and then I it just whether Reon going in a New Direction and that’s
6:42really hard for me uh and other people to to grasp you know yeah well it’s how
6:49we Define ourselves isn’t it and it’s it’s how we have to that point um
6:56probably seen our success or or non success right by what it is that what it
7:01is that we do think as a society it’s thing we ask isn’t it what do you do it’s that not yeah stand for which the
7:10more important questions to ask but we we want a label that we can hang on somebody and
7:15go so I imagine when that label got removed then you’re searching for
7:23something are you to to to kind of reconnect with to go well I’m now this
7:29in said would would that be fair yeah but I think the Les lesson to learn is not to try to find that next
7:36thing to attached to right because then the same thing is gonna happen again
7:42because you’re gon oh I’m the founder of the this Foundation but I am but the I
7:48think the objective is to be okay because in the end everything ends
7:53right no matter what happens right so that’s that’s difficult but that’s
8:00that’s to be okay no matter you know sick not sick you know
8:06uh your arm gets cut off something happens to you still be hey I’m still
8:12okay with with myself yeah so that’s that’s the challenge and go ahead sorry
8:19I was gonna say it’s it almost like a journey to to go inward to find yourself to find sure that that you can connect
8:25with and go this is still me whatever else is going this
8:30right because the world is always telling you that all your happiness is based on outside stuff you got to have
8:36more money this that the other thing uh sure I like money and buying things but
8:42it’s it’s more of a choice internally it’s hard to see that and everything you see everything that’s sold to you is
8:51based on that premise so it’s hard not to think uh that way yeah it is because
8:58I’ve I’ve got a little she’s she’s seven and I keep trying to tell her that you know the most important things in the
9:04world are the things that come for free um sure we forget that as then get to my
9:10age and you relearn it you go 50 years trying to go the other way
9:15but but talk about it enough do we about the the importance of connection the importance of um time with people you
9:23time is precious commodity and yet we waste it all the time don’t we
9:29yeah yeah I I don’t know if we waste it but but but going back to the the
9:35community and relation sip so this also goes a little bit to the next piece of
9:40the story so so I yeah I got bought out and then I felt deeper in depression I
9:46started shaking uh that’s why they were call me shaking uh I was was shaking
9:52uncontrollably people thought I had Parkinson’s because I looked like I had Parkinson’s and then another another guy
9:58came into the store so uh this guy’s name is uh Brent herd so me and Brent our kids in in the US
10:06you know played Sports together they played baseball together and we were like baseball buddies or you go to a
10:11soccer match or whatever you’re talking to the parents and then we weren’t best buddies but we were friendly and then
10:16Brent was also friendly with my wife not too friendly but he was friendly and then when this was happening my wife her
10:22name is Blanca says you need to contact uh Brent and I said I like Brent he’s a
10:28good guy but what does he have to do with this she says she has a feeling so she ended up texting Brent uh luckily
10:35Brent came back right away he’s asking all the right questions not a therapist or anything but you know is he in a safe
10:41place thises is happening to a lot of people so something similar happened to Brent about uh 10 years ago so in
10:48essence he became if you think of Alcoholics Anonymous and you think of a a sponsor which is basically a buddy
10:55right so he became my mental health sponsor you know walking talking with me
11:01checking on me all those different things uh which is great because uh
11:06mental Health’s complicated there’s a lot of pieces there’s treatment centers there’s different medications Etc but
11:15but really having someone that went through something similar and you could say you know I know exactly how you feel
11:23because when you’re in that state you usually feel very alone like I’m what’s
11:28wrong with me I’m the only freak that feels like this right but it’s actually kind of the opposite and I could tell
11:34you uh not from from my non-scientific data that I’ve had you know 500 phone
11:41calls or so and I could tell you that things go or issues with mental health is never one degree away from
11:47anybody it’s always half a degree or zero degrees away from everybody if it’s if it’s every time I tell someone the
11:53story so many times I couldn’t tell you how many times people said to me Sean I never told anyone this but and then they
11:58tell me uh their story their family their friend their mom their dad whatever it is so
12:04everyone you might think you’re alone but it’s it’s actually the exact uh
12:10opposite it’s it’s so true isn’t it and I think often I’ve heard from
12:17people or if I’ve you had moments myself where where things have got too much is
12:23um The Voice in your head sounds so plausible sure um and and and what you
12:29don’t do is share it with anybody else so and but the minute you do then
12:35then actually realize it’s not that plausible really and the opposite is probably also true and you invite those
12:40people in but taking that first step actually share with people that’s
12:47that’s a tough step to take isn’t it I don’t know when you’re when you’re
12:52at some point when you feel so bad that it just kind of you know when you drink and you drink too much and then you
12:57throw up right uh it’s kind of the similar thing when you you’re overloaded and you just
13:04it has to come out it’s just like all right this is I’ve been holding it down too long I can’t hold it anymore just
13:09it’s all gonna all gonna come out and then it feels a little better uh uh when it when it comes out right and I think
13:16it’s also again going back to Brent there’s so many people going through these similar things and you again you
13:22think you’re like the only one but once you talk to people they’re like oh yeah I felt the same way or oh I never told
13:29you about my my son my daughter my mom my dad whatever it is it’s not it’s
13:35usual It’s Not Unusual at all it’s more
13:40the the norm yeah and it’s
13:45um so there already you’ve already Shar so much of your story but I’m guessing there’s there’s more so so of course
13:52there’s more of course there’s more so then uh yeah I did what thing with Brent and and then uh I went away to two
13:57treatment centers one in California one one in Florida different than the psych
14:03ward not as scary they take away your phone you’re in therapy all day and then I got back really about a year ago right
14:10now and uh how the foundation started I could talk a little bit about what we go do there was me and Brent we were
14:17talking on the phone and we were like you know you know that was serious that was real right and I was like yeah man
14:23that was real and I said that’s what we’re going to call it we’re going to call it the real and then uh Brent naturally asked me like what is it and
14:30of course I said I have no idea but I I know there’s a lot of men women and
14:36families that are suffering and I think that uh we learned some things and and
14:41and we can help them some so that was that was the first chapter and that’s how the foundation
14:48started wow that’s amazing taking kind of taking the experience you’ve gone
14:54through and then Shar that with people to help them one see that if faing a
14:59similar one they’re not alone but to I guess um demystifying some of it by by
15:08sharing your lived experience yeah that goes a little bit
15:13to what the just to touch on what the foundation does is um it’s based on three C’s it
15:20goes conversations goes to community goes to change so I’ll give you a little info on that so conversation so exactly
15:27what you’re talking about so the talk that we’re talking about the talk that I give I call it the real talk exactly it
15:34does exactly what you say so I’ve been giving the story and telling what happened it’s more of a discussion than
15:40me telling it’s more back and forth with people but I’ve been doing that um all
15:45across the US I also did it in uh in Davos and I’ll do some more stuff in in
15:50Europe so what happens when you tell the story I think other people can feel
15:59they can relate yeah right and they they feel like okay Sean seems like a
16:04somewhat normal guy he went through this thing and lots of times when I do it I don’t ask people but then they start
16:10Shing their story right because everyone feels like they’re guarding something keeping something from other people but
16:17they don’t really have to but that but we feel like we we have to uh so that’s
16:24G to that helps to break down the stigma make people feel more comfortable and
16:29then the other thing that happens through that kind of naturally is which was very important to me again you have
16:36treatment centers you have psychiatrist psychologists you have everything and all important but but was super helpful
16:42for me was uh community so people like Brent right and I think and you have
16:50this lot of loneliness lots of isolation lots of people still you know working at
16:55work at home how often do they interact with other people uh and things still I mean CO’s gone
17:01obviously but I think the world changed so the second piece the second C is
17:07community right so around Community we have an app but this is not a like a
17:13technology thing so what is the app for it has four purposes uh it’s still getting up and
17:18running but one give people a safe place where they can talk about these things and not feel like they’re judged right
17:25because that’s what you’re always feeling secondly uh Brent was my mental health sponsor be a mental health
17:31sponsor find a mental health sponsor third uh and I I’m this is all same all
17:37over the world I think is you know I should have not gone to the psych W but when you’re in that position who do you
17:44speak to what do you do where the heck do you go it’s really complicated and confusing and you don’t really have a
17:50road mapap so to have peers helping other peers so you know people sometimes
17:56call me uh and ask me what they should do do or meet with them and yeah the psych board might be appropriate for
18:02some people but some people it’s not but I’m not trying to convince them anything
18:07I’m not trying to sell them anything I’m just trying to give them my experience
18:12and then and then the third piece is um uh also people are interested in different modalities yoga mindfulness
18:20meditation psychedelics a whole host of things but it’s the same thing where do you learn about those things where you
18:26don’t feel like people are trying to sell you stuff it’s good to hear from from peers and then we do other things
18:31in person so we do this thing for example called the real walk we do it every Thursday 7 A.M in Atlanta now it’s
18:38expanding to different cities like Boston and Orlando it’s not complicated what we do is we walk around a park uh
18:46and do we talk about mental health sometimes do we talk about nothing sometimes is a good exercise yeah so
18:54it’s just people kind of getting together I think in the US especially it’s very divided Place Republicans
19:00Democrats all this stuff but the thing is you can go for a walk with anybody
19:05now you might not agree with their ideas but or what they think but that’s okay
19:11uh you don’t have to you can still be uh friends with them uh and there’s plenty of guys I don’t agree with anything that
19:17they say but uh they’re my friends I don’t I don’t that doesn’t matter so
19:22just trying to bring people together so it goes conversations goes to community goes to change I think of change
19:28internally how you’re through the conversations and through the through the community I love that that whole walk
19:35and talk P it’s it’s invaluable and you right we we often um get ourselves
19:42wedded to the need to be right so if we have a different opinion to somebody we start having to tell them why our
19:47opinion is better but when you g that just go well doesn’t matter who’s right or who’s wrong we’re just going to chat
19:53yeah doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter we can disagree and not disrespect sure of course
19:59therefore that becomes much easier but creating that safe space for people where they can turn up and just have
20:05that talk might sound really simple but I imagine it is invaluable um the group
20:12that that are there yeah no guys uh like it and it’s
20:18really simple anyone could do it and yeah I think uh
20:25also hey the world’s changing maybe before you had your job for 30 years I
20:30don’t know if that’s good or bad or you you know going to the pub or this that the other thing uh but there’s less
20:37things like that anymore right and people are just kind of lots of times they’re just running running and running
20:44and running but where where are you going you gota stop for a second yeah
20:50just uh especially I’ve I have you know two kids so this sporting that sporting
20:56just keep on running but but you know and not really
21:01having conversations with people just saying hey what’s going on but not really talking to them yeah yeah I mean
21:08that’s normal it’s not anything unusual no but I think we have we have we’ve kind of set up our lives almost like
21:15every you Life’s a destination and it isn’t it’s the journey constantly trying to get to the next destination instead
21:22enjoying the journey as as we go um of course right the you the world’s changed
21:29but I think that pressure kind of hasn’t that pressure we’re all still on that hamster
21:35wheel running around a big circle and and it sounds like actually what you’ve been able to do is find those moments to
21:42get off it just no I’m I struggle my I’m not saying like I’m perfect and I’m
21:47sitting on a mountain and but I I just I can I can hopefully kind of see it a
21:53little bit in my mind that I’m doing that and like okay you know
21:59yeah because you always think you’re not enough you got to do more and all those different things so that’s one thing
22:04that hey trying to get in my head that that you’re already enough right you don’t need to do more even though you
22:10always think you need to do more and then another thing is just we have
22:16something like 3,000 60,000 30,000 thoughts going through our mind I’m not
22:22a scientist or a therapist but I just heard these numbers and and those are all kind of rabbit holes that you can
22:28run down and uh I like to run down those especially in the past and that’s
22:35very uh exhausting because if you you’re lying in bed at night and you I used to like
22:42be recapping my day and oh I should have done this I should have done that and
22:48then and that no these thoughts are G to come and they’re gonna go so just
22:54they’re like clouds uh so you just trying to tell myself these different things that just make the machine work a
23:01little bit differently not change everything just change the lens a little
23:07bit in in the glasses so so is it about almost being more
23:13um intentional um so you know the choosing
23:18to let the thoughts come and go rather than having to run after everyone of them not all the time because obviously
23:24we all we will always get it slightly wrong but yeah in those going that’s okay I can yeah I’m
23:32thinking like that that’s all right I’m thinking that that’s just G to you know yeah it’ll be
23:37gone the next minute I and I sometimes catch myself I’ll be walking around the park and I’ll be like I was upset about
23:44something and I was on the other side of the park what was it oh I don’t remember what it was but I was
23:51upset yeah reminds me of I can’t remember who quote it is but it say you shouldn’t you shouldn’t spend more than
23:58five minutes thinking about something that won’t matter at all in five years it’s like sure
24:03sure great sense but how much time do we you know I used to be dreadful for it
24:08and if I had to do something I wasn’t looking forward to doing I would hours and hours and hours going over every
24:14yeah of course so just making the experience last 10 times as long as it needed to likewise you’d overplayed it
24:22so much it must be something how our brains are wide I don’t know uh that yeah
24:28again not being scientist but somehow you’re uh just listening to other people is somehow your brain is wired that it
24:36thinks it’s protecting you uh so it’s not trying to hurt you but it’s lots of times it’s not telling
24:43you um you comes back to I think maybe fight or flight when we
24:48were back in the caveman you know are you going to get ready to fight are you
24:53going to are you going to run so I I don’t know the Dynamics of it but but but I understand yeah I I read in a in a
25:01book I’m trying to think whose it was I think in my Florence SC shines that said your subconscious mind doesn’t have a
25:07sense of humor so yeah whatever you’re telling it it thinks is important to you so tell it
25:14something awful it’ll bring you more awful things because it it if you tell it something positive it’ll bring you
25:20more positive things because it understand the difference between negative and positive so we have to try
25:27and get back in control control of what we’re what we’re saying which is often easier said than done in the moment of
25:33course it’s a constant learn isn’t it it’s a constant
25:38development for sure what would you say has been your proudest achievement so
25:45far because you’ve done so many things uh my proudest achievement is
25:53being a dad I mean that was that probably my Prest achievement I mean there
25:58doing stuff yeah but I think sometimes when you uh I just look at my kids and
26:03then I think back oh that girl was a baby now you know look at her or my son
26:10so that’s that’s my proudest achievement I
26:15would say you know um yeah for me and I would also say uh just in general I
26:24think what I’m good at is when I I want to do something I I do it like
26:33I don’t say it and not do it I’m like all right I’m GNA do this and then I
26:39follow through and do it yeah I love that because too often you we don’t do
26:47sure sure sure sure sure keep moving it if you follow through um and then
26:54actually you’re living by what you’re setting out to live by so what would you say has been the greatest lesson you’ve
27:02learned uh I was thinking about that because I knew you going to ask that question and I had one thought in my in
27:07my head but uh lately it’s changed so I I
27:15think it’s that you should treat yourself like a friend because you
27:22always beating me always beating myself up right you would never treat treat a
27:29friend the way you treat yourself yeah so I think that’s it’s
27:35hard to do but to you know have some have some empathy for yourself and not
27:42always beat yourself oh I did this I should have done that why they do that this that so yeah I I would say that’s
27:48super important to me oh that at least try to do that I don’t it’s it’s very
27:54hard to do but it’s so true isn’t it you I I’ve said to myself that I would never
27:59dream of even thinking about another human being saying and you think the only person
28:05that’s with you all of the time is you what why ref to be with somebody you don’t like sure sure but that is really
28:13hard to to to develop is it to get into into
28:18that you know always finding the fault in ourselves instead of oh yeah it’s normal to accept the positives and um
28:27and only those not to say everything was like I’m not completely H like actually
28:33can do this bit do quite well um and you you’re right it’s that um yeah I often
28:41one of the tricks I I learned when I was trying to get through this was actually whenever I’m telling myself something awful I had to go and stand in front of
28:47a mirror and say it to myself out loud harder to do because you’re look
28:52into the eyes of a human being you know it’s you but you’re now facing yourself so you it kind of changes the psychology
29:00of going I can’t say that word sure sure sure sure you’re the meanest to yourself
29:06yeah we are aren’t we um and you I’ve got little girl as well I’m trying to
29:12change how I speak to myself so that she doesn’t learn to speak to herself in the same way because we inadvertently teach
29:19them that don’t we of course such a great um great role model in in showing
29:25them that actually it’s it’s okay to to not be okay it’s okay it’s okay to um to
29:33share which is such an amazing gift because so many people are too afraid to
29:39do that and I could chat to you all day but I’m conscious of of time um if there
29:46was one thing that you wish you had learned sooner or one piece of advice
29:51that you could give your your younger self what would it be oh you know when I was was young
29:58especially I was very shy and I was very afraid and uh just to realize that all
30:05those fears were basically a paper tiger not really there they’re really actually in your head so to not be so afraid yeah
30:16um that’s what I would say I love that Sean it’s been amazing to chat to you so
30:22how can people get in touch we make sure everything how best connect with you
30:28uh they can go to the website it’s the the real. care they can email me uh Sean
30:36at the real doare and then I most of the things that we do we post on on LinkedIn
30:42so just Linkin or look for the real uh on LinkedIn most of the stuff is there
30:49amazing Sean thank you so very much I’ll make sure all of those ways to connect with you are in the notes below and I
30:56look forward to hearing more successes and more of your being able to open this safe space for people
31:03to and gain that Community um so that they too can find their their way
31:10out thank you until next time [Music]