Mastering Effective Communication: Insights from Mike Lane-Evans on “Authentic Achievements”
In a recent episode of “Authentic Achievements,” the host welcomed Mike Lane-Evans, a communication coach with a unique background in professional acting. This distinctive perspective, born from his journey from the West End stage to the corporate world, highlights the transformative power of effective communication. This blog post will break down the key themes and actionable advice shared during the episode, providing valuable insights for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills.
The Journey from Acting to Communication Coaching
Mike’s Background
Mike Lane-Evans began acting at age eight, eventually pursuing professional training and performing on the West End stage. Despite his passion for acting, he faced challenges securing roles, leading him to explore new avenues. His transition into communication coaching was fueled by his experiences with the British military, where he discovered the profound impact of effective communication.
Key Takeaways:
Embrace Change: Mike’s journey underscores the importance of being open to new opportunities, even when uncertain.
Leverage Past Experiences: Skills and insights from previous careers can be invaluable in new roles.
The Importance of Effective Communication
Understanding Communication Preferences
One of the central themes of the episode was the significance of understanding individual communication preferences. Mike underscored that this understanding is crucial, especially for leaders and managers, as it can prevent potential conflicts and misunderstandings.
Actionable Tips:
Open Dialogue: Encourage team members to express their communication preferences openly.
Tailored Feedback: Adapt your feedback style to match the recipient’s preferences, enhancing the effectiveness of your communication.
The Role of Curiosity
Curiosity emerged as a vital trait for fostering better communication and understanding. Both speakers highlighted how curiosity, when embraced, can bridge gaps in understanding and foster stronger relationships.
Actionable Tips:
Ask Questions: Instead of making assumptions, ask questions to gain deeper insights into others’ perspectives.
Active Listening: Practice active listening by fully engaging in conversations and showing genuine interest in what others say.
Navigating Communication Challenges During the COVID-19 Pandemic
Virtual Interactions
The shift to virtual interactions during the COVID-19 pandemic posed significant challenges for effective communication—the lack of body language and in-person cues made connecting difficult for many individuals.
Actionable Tips:
Virtual Watercooler Moments: Create informal virtual interactions to build relationships and foster community.
Clear Communication: Be explicit in your communication to avoid misunderstandings, especially in a virtual setting.
Assumptions and Misunderstandings
The episode highlighted how assumptions can lead to misunderstandings, particularly in unfamiliar situations. Mike noted that assumptions often stem from a survival instinct but can hinder effective communication.
Actionable Tips:
Clarify Intentions: Always clarify your intentions and encourage others to do the same to prevent misinterpretations.
Check Assumptions: Regularly check your assumptions and seek confirmation to ensure accurate understanding.
The Value of Treating Others Well
Empathy and Mutual Benefit
The host emphasised the importance of treating others as they wish to be treated, a principle rooted in empathy and mutual benefit. Scientific research supports the notion that helping others can lead to greater satisfaction than receiving help.
Actionable Tips:
Empathetic Communication: Practice empathy by considering others’ feelings and perspectives in your interactions.
Mutual Support: Foster a culture of mutual support where everyone feels uplifted and valued.
Building Strong Relationships Through Communication
Personal and Professional Dynamics
The conversation touched on the nuances of relationships, both personal and professional. Effective communication is crucial for addressing grievances and fostering collaboration.
Actionable Tips:
Constructive Feedback: Frame feedback positively and focus on constructive solutions to enhance collaboration.
Psychological Safety: Create a safe environment for sharing vulnerabilities and discussing sensitive topics.
Rituals for Connection
Mike shared a personal achievement during the COVID-19 lockdown. He and his wife, along with another couple, established a weekly practice of sharing reflections and requests around the dinner table. This ritual strengthened their relationships and created a safe space for open communication.
Actionable Tips:
Regular Check-ins: Implement regular check-ins with your team or loved ones to discuss what went well and areas for improvement.
Celebrate Successes: Celebrate successes and learning experiences, fostering a positive and supportive environment.
The episode “Authentic Achievements” featuring Mike Lane Evans offers a wealth of insights into the transformative power of effective communication. By understanding individual preferences, fostering curiosity, and practising empathy, individuals can enhance their communication skills and build stronger relationships in both personal and professional settings.
Key Takeaways:
Embrace Change and Leverage Past Experiences
Understand and Respect Communication Preferences
Foster Curiosity and Active Listening
Navigate Virtual Interactions with Clear Communication
Practice Empathy and Mutual Support
Create Rituals for Connection and Psychological Safety
Listeners are encouraged to connect with Mike through his website and social media platforms to access valuable resources designed to enhance their communication skills. By applying the principles discussed in this episode, individuals can navigate challenges more effectively and create a more supportive environment for growth and collaboration.
Connect with Mike
For more insights and actionable advice, tune in to “Authentic Achievements” and explore the transformative power of effective communication.
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Transcript:
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Kim-Adele Randall 00:00:08 Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Authentic Achievements, where it’s my absolute delight to be joined by the fabulous Mike Lane Evans. Mike, welcome.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:00:17 Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Oh, I’m.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:00:20 So looking forward to this. You’ve got such an interesting background. But before I get carried away and start jumping straight into my conversation, let me share a little bit more about you with the audience and people watching, in case they’ve not had the privilege of meeting you yet. So today’s guest, as I say, is Mike Lane Evans, whose incredible journey has taken him from the West End stage to becoming a top communication coach in corporate world. After struggling to secure roles as a professional actor, Mike discovered the power of communication and while working with the British military, this experience has helped him develop key skills in presenting and connecting with his audience, which led him to found Forefront Coaching. Following this, Mike has now coached over a thousand senior leaders, entrepreneurs and founders on how to communicate effectively in pictures, presentations and public public speaking.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:01:10 Today, we’re thrilled that Mike’s going to share with us his journey and offer valuable tips on how you can make an impact through authentic communications. So, Mike, what a journey. I guess that’s quite a lot, isn’t it? Can you can you bring that to life a little bit more of it for us, please?
Mike Lane-Evans 00:01:27 Yeah, it’s, you know, so it’s a while since I’ve, I’ve heard somebody say it back to me. so that was nice. yeah, I, I started acting when I was eight years old. Wow. And, it was very much my identity. It was what I understood about myself. I grew up in a little country town, as a city, but, we didn’t have kind of any youth theater or any kind of experience, so, I didn’t start going to youth theatre until I was 12, so I had four years of kind of having done other acting stuff outside, you know, outside of the hometown sort of building up. And once I started Youth Theatre, somebody told me that I could be paid to do this, and that was it.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:02:14 I was done, I was, I was grounded in for as far as I was concerned, the rest of my life. And I think it was there were a couple of times where I dipped out of my professional career. I thought I was done. I kind of got dragged back in by by myself. and yeah, when I then stopped. This time around. so I sort of stopped 2020, 2021. And, it was actually about a 4 or 5 year process because so much of my identity in who I was was wrapped in and around that. And something I’ll share which any actor listening to this will have experienced, when you stop acting and go to do another career. what’s often, asked or said is that you gave up, so. Oh, you know, so what made you want to give up? Or, like, what was it that you found that you know, meant that you could give up? Because there are a lot of actors out there who are going, I want to, but I don’t know where else to go.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:03:15 But the the rhetoric, the language is so much around giving up, which isn’t it’s, you know, very much taking, taking a step in a different direction. So luckily for me, I was working for a friend’s company, doing public speaking, coaching. and what had happened to me in my acting career was I’d ended up over about an 18 month period with some of the most high profile auditions I’d ever had, a couple of Hollywood movies and things like that. and I completely failed at all of them on the first time around. The first, because a lot of these auditions, you have two, three, four rounds and nearly all of them, I was kind of failing in the first hurdle, if you will. But it wasn’t just my performance that was failing, it was my personality completely disappeared. I couldn’t connect with the human beings, and my school reports said as early as I could talk, that I talked and that I connected with people. That’s what I’ve always been about. So for me, it felt scary.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:04:20 Actually. It felt really terrifying to connect with the human being and not really know why. And the connection to the British military was that one of my jobs at the time was doing some training, consulting for the British military, and I grew up in a military town. However, what I discovered the more I did work with, with, across military, across forces was that they’re they’re saying there’s it’s but there are different ways of communicating, different ways of cohesion and community. And they’re not completely alien, but they’re just slightly sort of parallel world, if you will. And so you have to kind of adjust your communication strategies, things that you think you know about the world. And when Covid happened a lot and again, suddenly we know how to we know how to communicate face to face. And then we had to do it through this box. And so all these pivots and these changes in communication styles was something that helped me to realize how needed it was around the world, across cultures, across countries, across genders.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:05:29 And so I built this foundation of communication that we then now help businesses and people to kind of improve their communication.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:05:40 Wow. That’s fascinating because, you know, communication is key. And I spent, like 30 years doing transformational change for organizations. And it always comes down to poor communication. and that’s often, not through not communicating, just not communicating effectively. Yeah. so, so not checking that actually what you say is what they hear. and that it doesn’t land without, a different meaning and nuance that’s in there. That’s, that’s going to be really different. And that got worse, as you say, quite rightly, when we moved into Covid. And all of a sudden, you know, you haven’t got body language cuz you haven’t got the same way, you’ve got this much of them to see. so, so, you know, how do you really connect with them? How do you really know, what’s going on? And I don’t know if you’ve heard the same through clients, but I had some fascinating conversations with people who really made certain things mean such a massive thing to them.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:06:39 So I had one guy who was really quite upset at senior senior guy chairman, and he’d been on a call and two of the people hadn’t turned their that camera. Yeah. And he turned that into. They don’t respect me. They don’t like me, they don’t think I’m good at my job, blah, blah blah. I was like, okay, that’s really it. That’s really interesting that that’s where you’ve taken it to. So why did they say they’d not turn the camera on? He said, well, they’re not put the makeup on yet. I said, okay, before Covid, before they were in there, you know, working from home. Were they ever late for a meeting because they haven’t put makeup on? You went well? No, I said, then it’s likely that’s an excuse. And the chances are they’ve turned their camera off because they’re feeling disconnected and it’s a way of distancing. It’s very much more about them than it is about you. But you’ve made it mean you.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:07:29 And now you’re off in this. You know, this story of where it’s going. And it really hit home. It was really, really early days. It really hit home the power of communication and doing it well because inadvertently they had miscommunicated massively and both gone away with very different experiences of that one interaction without saying a word.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:07:52 Yeah.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:07:53 so that you must see that so much those kind of, big impacts from what we make things mean versus what was actually said. Is that something that that kind of you see a lot of in your work?
Mike Lane-Evans 00:08:06 Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s so much that we that we rely on assumptions as human beings. It’s a survival instinct. And so there are times where that’s incredibly useful. But I think that when well, it’s very common with my clients when nerves kick in. What you just described there though is a completely sort of alien situation, something that we’re very much out of our comfort zone. And so then it’s that same thing of receptors, the sort of the trust that we can, put in our assumptions, I think is really off kilter.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:08:46 and also something that while you were talking there, that really struck me. I haven’t thought about this for a while. In sort of late 2020, when we first were sort of allowed out of the house a little bit more. I, I noticed at the time this was before I’d done some research into it so that my explanation now has evolved a little bit. So it’s quite basic, but my explanation at the time was that the most extroverted people I knew had become more introverted, and the very introverted people I knew, and this is one of my best friends in the world who was already very introverted, had become very recluse, in fact, and there’s a communication model that we teach now that looks at four different types of character, if you will, in terms of how you like to be communicated with. And whenever we run this in workshops, there’s always somebody or a couple of people within the workshop that says sort of braves it and says, okay, sorry. Do you mean how I like to be communicated or how I actually allow people to communicate? And the challenge there is why do they need to be different? And so many leaders that I meet or managers that I meet, they are they would like to be communicated in a camera’s off way.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:10:04 For instance, they would just talk on Monday mornings and Friday afternoons. But they don’t do that because it’s not good practice, because there are so many people in the world that expect more extroverted communication. There are so many people that find that rude or dismissive. But the big thing that’s missing in the middle is they’ve not tried to communicate how they would like to be communicated with, and they’ve not asked that of their team either. So this basic communication practice, anyone that joins the forefront team, we go through it because I want to know what’s your what’s your absolute premium. Like what’s your your best way of being communicated with? I can’t promise that it will be that every single time I can, sort of, like, acknowledge it. Like. Sorry. Yeah.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:10:56 Be conscious of it so that you can you can be consciously aware that while I might not be every time I know this is their preference and therefore I’ll do my best to adapt accordingly.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:11:07 Logit. Logit was the term I was looking for, like.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:11:10 Yeah, but exactly that. So it becomes, you know, all those times when, when we see this with couples all the time, you know, I, I actually know a couple who they both come from, divorces. They’ve gotten together in their sort of, mid 50s. They were together for sort of 7 or 8 years. And when they eventually split up, it was very much because of a list of small things, one of which was like leaving the tea bags in the sink rather than putting them straight into the bin. And I think these things are not small because if you’ve if you’ve had the civilised conversation, if you’ve had the good communication, if you’ve said this matters to me and that person has not logged it, you might not agree with it. But if you’ve not logged it and then made some attempts at least to change those behaviours, that’s what really takes to pull that relationship apart. And I think that’s true of romantic relationships. I think it’s very, very true of working relationships.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:12:06 But you might not feel that you have the opportunity to leave that relationship when it’s in work. You might not feel the luxury to say, okay, I’ll just go get another job because you love it there. Apart from the relationship with this person, because it works well with your work life balance and with your family and everything apart from this one person. And and I think that if you haven’t done those things when you first started working together, there’s no reason that you can’t do it at different points along the way and say, what is your preference of how you’d like to be communicated with? And I can’t do it all the time, but I am going to log it and I am going to respect it 100%. And if I am breaking it. So one of the people on my team, has very much sort of a 9 to 5 sort of mentally. One of the people on my team loves to work at ten, 11 midnight, likes to get some of the work done at that time.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:12:57 And so if I’m on a week, as I have been this week and last week where I’m working quite late nights, my my hand will go towards my phone to send a message to the team to ask them about something that I just want a quick answer to, and I go, well, I can do that with this person because it won’t throw them off because it’s how they like to be communicated with. But it’s disrespectful to this person. And actually, do I need to know right now or can it wait until the morning? And so it just takes that tiny little step for me. And what I then tend to do is just schedule the message. Or like I send it on a platform where I know that person won’t see it until the morning, something like that. That just is respecting their boundaries. Because I’ve just had a call with a potential new client who was talking about burnout. And like, I really think the burnout happens a lot because of a lack of boundaries.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:13:44 It’s it’s so true.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:13:46 And you remind me of two of two things. One, probably about 20 years ago, doing, I was taking part in some training. I was, leader in corporate life at the time, and we were being taught by some actors, actually, on how to better deliver, feedback. Yeah, yeah. As part of it. he got me to come up and he said, well, you’re going to role play giving the feedback. And I was like, okay. So I sat down with him and I said, before we start, can I ask you, how do you like to receive your feedback? Right. And he sat there and was totally stunned. And he went, nobody’s ever asked me that. And I said, okay, that’s really interesting. and he said, no, literally nobody’s ever asked me that. And I said, well, if I don’t know how you like to receive it, likelihood is you will not receive it because you’re not ready to receive it, because it’s not being delivered in the way that you find it better to receive.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:14:37 In which case I’m wasting my time and I’m wasting your time because we’re not going to we’re not going to get anything out of this. And you said I might swap over. I might get you to come up here and do this.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:14:48 But the second.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:14:49 One that it reminded me of you, we’re talking about the tea bag. And then there’s little nuances of things that really bug us, that we don’t say anything about and how often they can be misunderstanding. So. So I’ve got some friends and they they have this one. We’re married for years. That’s such a lovely couple. but they had that she had this real niggle, massive niggle that he would leave the microwave with three seconds to run and then go off, and it drove her mad, drove her to absolute destruction, loved everything about it. Never had the conversation for a long time. And then she asked him one day why he did it and he said, I work shifts. He said when I come in, I like want to put my dinner on to reheated that you’ve left for me.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:15:31 But I know that when the microwave pings, it’s going to wake you up, he said. So I stop it just in time. So it’s waking. So? So the thing that had been bugging of yes, was actually although the intention was positive, the impact wasn’t positive, but they’d gone away being frustrated with that because they’d never had that conversation. And I think for me, one of the things I learnt many years ago is we, we, we know our intention. The person we’re talking to knows our impact. They may not be the same thing. And unless we ask them, how did it land? Or we can be happy thinking, well, our intention was this and they can be really cheesed off because our impact was something entirely different. And so I love that you, that you as part of what you’re doing, you’re asking people, you know, how do you like it to land? Because that helps us change how we send the message in the first place to make sure it’s better received.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:16:29 I completely agree in that roleplay situation. What, did that actor then voice? How they like to receive feedback? Yeah, I guess.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:16:40 We did. So. So I said, well, I’m. Yeah, I’m just interested because I want to make sure, you know, that it lands for you, that it’s useful. and he said, well, actually, my preference is this I don’t like it when people, beat around the bush. He said, I really like it to be specific. And I was like, okay, so if we followed kind of like the star models, I’ll tell you the situation. I’ll tell you, I’ll ask you what your thoughts were. I’ll if you don’t mind, I’ll add to that with what I observed. and then we can have a look at kind of what the what the next steps are. And he was like, yeah, that was really helpful. I was like, brilliant. Because again, one of the things I learned about feedback is you’re having a I don’t know if you see this at Mark, I’d love your thoughts on it.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:17:20 Is we going to give somebody constructive feedback, which we have to do all the time as leaders. And you’re not having the same conversation. So when you go in and you’re there and give some feedback, it’s going to be great. I’m going to help them. You know, I’m doing it for the right intention. I want them to be the best that they can be. And so that’s your intention any head off. But the person listening thinks that you are there to attack them, that you don’t think that they’re good at their job. And I suddenly realized that actually we’re talking about the impacts that they had, and they’re thinking about the intention that they had. And so we’re so disconnected that we’re not really having a conversation. So one of the things I learned years ago was actually, if I go and do feedback now, I start off with, let’s just agree what I think you were trying to do. So can we just confirm your intention? I think you’re trying to be an amazing team player.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:18:11 I think you were trying to do the objectives. I think you were trying to do what was right for the customer. I think whatever it is that you think, and then they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, brilliant. That’s exactly what I want you to do. That’s amazing. Would you mind if I shared with you 1 or 2 ways where you’re getting in the way of meeting that intention. Well, at that point, they’re open to receiving it because you don’t think they’re stupid. You don’t think they were trying to do it wrong. You understand? They were trying to do the right thing, and now you’re their ally in saying, just to just help you where there’s a couple of blind spots that you might not be able to see. Yeah, yeah. Tell me, tell me, tell me about. Brilliant. Here we go. Here’s the 1 or 2 things that that. Where did you notice at this point in the conversation? The customer seemed confused. Yeah, yeah I did.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:18:55 Or maybe that’s because this is what you were saying, but this is what they were, you know, this is what they were saying in response. The hearing was different. So it just takes them to a place where actually they can really hear the information without it being an attack. and I think this. Yeah, you just you push better at this to me, but, I, I’d love to know that some of the things that you see very often is, is actually the people aren’t having the conversation they think they’re having, because not both parties have bought in to what the purpose is and what the intention is.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:19:30 Yes. Yeah, it is. And I just, You’re obviously very successful and brilliant at what you do, and I and I just hearing you speak and I’ve definitely met people who I think will slightly misinterpret what you said by saying like, well, you know, let me let me tell you how you actually came across. And then it becomes less curious. And I think for me, the whole time you were talking, the word that was just spinning around my head was curiosity, because I think that’s I think that’s the if you forget everything else from this, this podcast, in fact, or from any of the other teachings, like from from me or from you, you can, I think, be curious.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:20:13 And I have a couple of post-it notes on my wall here that are just reminders for things that I like to do, but I sometimes just forget to do because of old habits or whatever. And when it comes to curiosity. It’s so easy to go right. I’m on a tight. Time schedule. My boss has got me to get this done. You’re not getting it done. I’m going to sort of do the things that I learned and say, right. So, you know, what I think you were trying to do is. And I think you were trying to do this, can I tell you how you actually came across? And then just kind of laying into all the bad things and then saying, so it’s not quite working, and those people can then if there’s no kind of resolution or solution or kind of, autonomy around it, I think that’s the important thing. If you’ve not curiously tried to find out what what they’re intending and what they what they’re actual, what is the impact that they want to be having? Yeah.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:21:08 Then they can’t take control over how they kind of bridge that gap. Instead, you’re just going, well, you didn’t do it. And they go, okay, cool. Well, now I feel like shit. And I don’t know, I don’t know how to fix it. so I think I wanted to just frame that because I think you’re absolutely right. And I am just aware that for some people, especially being in the UK, it can be very results driven, feedback can be very results driven. And so it’s sort of telling, maybe more than asking. Sometimes I see that as an issue a lot. So yeah be curious.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:21:42 Yeah I love that. And in fact I’m I’m about in the process of writing my latest book, which is about the curious leader. And actually, as a leader, how we can be more curious about self and others. So why do I think this? Why do why do you think that? Why do we get here? How do we almost the questioning everything not to be the difficult toddler.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:22:03 That’s like why why why why why? But more from a open mindedness to go who knows what we’re not, what we’re not going to find. And, years ago, when we used to coach people in the call centre and that again, to your point, we used to ask them, like, you tell me why you tell me about the call. That’s why it was always tell me what you think and then I’ll add to it, if you don’t mind. because actually, you might think, well, I think they lost the call here, but when you chat to them, they lost it five minutes earlier.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:22:29 Yeah.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:22:31 Yeah. I had no idea where I was going next. I thought we had that brilliantly because I didn’t spot the the stress on you until you got here or somewhere. So you’re so right. I think one of the things that we have, lost the art of this curiosity. And I think sometimes some of the phrases that we grew up with or certainly me, I, I’m a lot older, but some of the phrases we grew up with, I don’t think help us.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:22:54 You know, we have like, sticks and stones will break your bones. Well, we know that that’s not true. Names actually do hurt us. but for me, one of the biggest was curiosity killed the Cat, and it’s like, didn’t I built a career on being curious? I wonder why we do that. I wonder why you think that. Wonder why I think this. I wonder where we’re going to go with this. And as a team, how do we be more curious? How do we, be more open to to that piece. And I think for me, the big breakthrough was when I learned and was able to help share with my team. Just because you’re right doesn’t make me wrong. And just because I’m right doesn’t make you wrong. Actually, we can both be right. And that can be a third option as well. And if we’re curious to that, we don’t have to be in this. We’ve almost made conversation a battle, haven’t been instinctive instead of an art form.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:23:46 I think what you just described, the ways that we talk to each other, is so particularly in British culture. It’s so deep rooted that we all have habits that we don’t necessarily know that we have or that are hard to break, even if we don’t personally align with them. just out of interest. Have you worked with agile organizations? Yes. So, like one of the things that we see sometimes is agile organizations, excuse me, that they start off really well. They’re really open, they’re really curious. And then they need to grow and then they’re still trying to hit their KPIs or they’re they’re okay. But. And now suddenly you had a really good year. So now we’re going to try and make 110% next year. But the pressure now on everybody to do that means that I know I asked you how your weekend was, but we kind of need to get into the the actual work now because we’ve got that extra 10% to hit this year. And suddenly those stand up meetings on a Monday morning are not ten, 12 minutes of genuine curiosity and genuinely getting to chat with each other before we get into the 18 minutes of business.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:25:00 But actually, after 2 or 3 minutes, there’s a bit of sort of we’ve really got a lot to talk about today, and I sort of don’t care that much about the festival that you’re at the weekend and that that sort of suppression, that sort of time pressure. Or it might not be time. There are other pressures, can take away that agility. Have you have you seen that happen?
Kim-Adele Randall 00:25:23 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I’m just smiling because you kind of want me to see them where they want to go. Do you want to just send me a post-it note on that? So I’m like, I’ve done the smiley, I’ve done the nice bit, but, you know, I really need to get done, and I so I sort of get a lot worse when we move to this. and actually, you know, one of the. So in the first week of lockdown, I co-authored my first ever book, and my part of it was the benefits of the virtual watercooler, because sometimes in meetings, you don’t get the chance to be able to.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:25:53 You do have to be in and it is a pressure and things are on and you’ve got to get through. But if that’s all you ever do, then you’re going to you’re not going to build a team and you’re going to become dysfunctional very quickly. And the bit we lost when you’re running a remote team and I started running a remote team 25 years ago, is you miss those watercooler moments. They get in the lift with somebody and go. You’re watching a boxer. Did you have a nice night or. That outfit’s lovely. It might not be any more than that, but it’s genuine interaction with nothing. No agenda. It’s just to connect with people. and I remember running my first team, as I say, 25 years ago, and that was before you had zoom or anything like that. We used to be very old fashioned, but we used to meet once a month. If we didn’t meet more often that very often, we’d be in an office, but we’d meet in one central location where all of us had the same distance to drive, and we would sit in this hotel not working together, doing our own meetings, but just so that we had a chance to do the virtual watercooler together and still team.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:26:56 And it was so important because you’re right, we miss that. And actually it holds those organizations back. They become significantly less productive in their drive to be significantly more productive because they lose that human connection, they lose that. Yeah. Once you’ve got that connection, you want to help each other. You want to take on a little bit more, don’t you? But. But no, I’ve seen it was making me smile because I’ve seen you almost like, why ask the question? But, you know, I’m not really involved in the answer. I’ve done my take. I’m a good leader. I asked you if you had a lovely weekend, you know.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:27:35 So I was just going to say it’s one of my biggest bugbears about podcasts is that often it’s just here’s a question. You monologue for three minutes and then I’ll ask the next question. And actually, for me, it feels quite inhuman. Yeah, there isn’t that kind of conversation back and forth because it is naturally what we what we want and what we need as humans to kind of grow and develop.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:28:00 Yeah. And for me, that’s always been my drive on. This one is that we have a genuine conversation. Yeah. Because I’ve, I’ve co-hosted with somebody who was we’ve got a question. You ask the next question. And, I’ve shared this before, but there was there was one moment where it still makes me feel like ill thinking about it. The guest wasn’t wasn’t my guest. But the guest has shared the most personal story, an amazingly personal story about the birth of their child and the fact that initially they didn’t think they were going to be able to walk, etc., and that they all they’ve gone through to get them there. And the child now, you know, was was a teenager and was was, playing sports for the country and could walk. I mean, what an amazing, amazing gift to share with, with us about their, you know, their personal lived experience. And unfortunately, the other person I was co-hosting with knew what the next question was and went, yes, so and then went on to the next question.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:28:56 And I was like, no, no, no, you can’t. That isn’t what you do in a comment. No, that was not in a conversation. I was that mortified that when it got to my question, I actually dumped my question and went back and said, I’m ever so sorry to take us back in the conversation, but I’m still reflecting on what you said, and I get one. Thank you for for being gracious enough to share that with us. I mean, what an experience I can’t begin to imagine, and then asked for a question about it because I was like, I can’t. I feel like I’m in a conversation. I want to leave again. That’s not what you say is like, that’s like somebody giving you the most beautiful ornament and you’re just going, yeah, whatever. I’ve got a question to ask. and you’re right. I mean, I see that I see that often in podcasts, and hopefully I do my very best to make sure I don’t do that on the on this one.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:29:49 And I do make it a genuine conversation because that’s the bit for me. That’s the joy of my life. I get to have amazing conversations with fabulous people like you and learn stuff. It’s like, I mean, what a gift. So, right, you’ve already shared such amazing insight. What would you say has been your greatest achievement so far?
Mike Lane-Evans 00:30:10 Okay, so I. We had talked before the podcast and I had decided what I was going to say. And since we’ve been talking, I’ve changed my mind. So, in because this isn’t business related, so it’s personally related, but in so to go back to Covid, we prior to Covid, in 2019, we were saving to buy a house. Me and my now wife and two very good friends of ours, another couple were also saving to buy a house. So we all decided, well, get a two bed flat and we’ll kind of save a little bit of money and means that we can kind of get towards those mortgages faster. Well, we moved in in November 2019 on a two year contract, and then five months later, or four and a half months later, we were locked in in a two bed flat, one story, for the three months or whatever it was for three months.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:31:09 And so a combination of things from my wife’s work with some suggestions from all of us, what we did was every Sunday we would sit around the kitchen table, the four of us, and there were four questions that we had to, to take, take each other through. We sort of do question one around the circle. So you didn’t have someone kind of talking for too long. And what one of the things was something that has worked really well this week. So it might be something like, last week I asked if just between like one and two, I’ve got this really important call if if everyone could just be a little bit more quiet because we’re in such a small space. And I really felt like everybody respected that. And like, it’s not just the fact that it made the calls better, but actually, I’ve just felt like we’ve all been a bit closer this week, and I felt like it’s been a bit more fun and less kind of tense. So something like that and then some.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:32:04 And then one of the questions was something that we’d like to request going forward. And it started off as something that we don’t like or something negative when we change the language around it, because it would just be to use the teabag example. Again, it might just be like when you leave the teabags in the sink, I have to like grab them and put them in the bin before I can use the sink to wash up. And I was rushing to a call. Could we just put them into the bin? As long as everybody agrees to respect the thing that you’re requesting, then it becomes this thing that we at least just trial for the week ahead. And we also shared something that we had learned in the week because it gave a lot of purpose. So this, this practice, not only brought the four of us closer together, it brought me closer together with my wife as well, you know, in both couples cases. But the four of us together, it became an absolute way to kind of, like, survive that, that environment, if you will.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:32:59 And, and I say survival like that because it became way beyond survival. It became fun and exciting and, we looked forward to it, most of the time. And, it like, you know, I feel I’m very British, and so I feel slightly eggy about saying what I’m about to say next, but because it’s saying that I inspired somebody is something that a lot of Brits would feel was a little bit arrogant. And so I don’t mean in an arrogant sense, but we did, through telling the stories to other friends and family members, inspire other people to start something similar. And it’s not just a Covid thing, like lots of our friends and family still do it. Maybe not every Sunday, maybe it’s like once a month. me and my wife, it’s maybe like once every month or two months. But we have these moments where we carve out it. If it’s once every two months as well, it ends up being a three hour chat rather than a 30 minute chat. But we call this time out.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:33:54 We dedicate that time to each other to kind of open those kind of hours and, Everything that we have a grievance of or anything that we kind of really want to celebrate each other for as well. And it has made our relationship just significantly stronger.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:34:12 I love that. I mean, for so many reasons. I mean, you get you’re taking that chance to be really present with each other, and you’ve created that safe space because you’ve all bought into it to to not only share the things you’re grateful for, to learn together, but also to make sure that you know that the tea bag incident doesn’t become the reason you separate in ten years time. Because actually, you can bring it up earlier. And, you know, maybe it’s like, you know, explaining what the impact is or even saying, you know, I really love it when I get to the sink and there’s no teabags in it. I find no blame on anybody. I just really love it when it’s not there, because I can get straight in there and the other people can subliminally go, I can do that for you.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:34:55 I can do that for you, because I think sometimes I do. If you if you’ve seen this too much, we sometimes set our goals in the negative. I don’t like it when there’s debugging versus I love it when I get to the sink of this negative. I guess that makes my day. I mean, that puts me on like euphoria level. I can do that. I have the chance to make you euphoric just by putting my teabag in the bin. And I can do that, that, that, that feels like a bonus versus I just get not to irritate you because I put it and put it somewhere else. But I love that I’m definitely going to look at that with my little girl, because we we do her every now and again. We’ll sit down and we’ll talk about at the end of every day, you know, what did we learn today? What we’re grateful for. You should only seven. So, you know, it’s just so that it’s a great thing to chat about over dinner.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:35:43 But I love the questions that you’ve got to really give it some more depth as we go into that and and maybe picking that up with friends as well. Because sometimes you don’t get into those conversations, do we? we get too busy with life. And I think being intentional about it must have been really impactful.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:36:02 Yeah. And I think also, you know, it can be a bit edgy if you just try to like if you’re just, you know, I live in London and if me and my wife are just we’ve not seen each other much all week. And it’s Friday night and we’re heading off to see friends. And I say, you know, what have you learned this week or what has what would you like to request going forward? It sounds so formal, especially when you’ve just come out of corporate world for the week. So why are you speaking to me? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let me just, whereas sometimes that very well chosen, carved out language communicates something much better than the kind of ways we want to try and colloquially or soften it because we’re on the tube.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:36:41 And so you go, okay, well, I can’t use that very formal language or it’s weird. Whereas if you’ve made that time and said, well, this is the time where we we use those questions in that formula in that way. It sets that safe space of going, well, they’re not going to get too angry if I say, you know, could you please do this more? Because we’ve set we’ve built sort of the safe walls around us for the next 30 minutes or an hour or whatever, whatever you put in place, and I do, I actually would say that the time is really, really important because I think I’ve just I said a couple of minutes ago, my wife and I, it can be an hour or 2 or 3, but we’ve done it. We probably should put the time back on it. We’ve done it so much over the years that I think that we kind of got a little bit more kind of, grounding around it. Whereas in the early days, having that time frame was so, so important, so that you respected each other’s time as well.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:37:36 So like we talk a lot in coaching about psychological safety. And if you’re entering a situation like that where you’re asking people to share really vulnerable things, you’ve got to create that space of psychological safety. And even if you’re just in a lockdown, you’ve got nowhere else to go. I might just want to put a movie on in in half an hour. I might not want to hear you share the 20 things you’ve learned this week for the next three hours, because actually, I tapped out. So yeah, for the time, the time really helps. And it’s just dedicating it. because I think respect is just a key thing. Like my dad, I grew up with my dad saying, treat others the way that you want to be treated. And I don’t agree with that, but I, I, I when I worked with the British military, we talked about because so many people have come from backgrounds like I had where they’ve been taught that phrase, and we had to reframe it and rebuild the habits around, treat other people in the way that they want to be treated, not the way that you want to be treated.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:38:38 And I sorry, I laughed slightly there because of the years of doing it, it becomes really obvious. But actually for lots of people and probably people listening right now, that maybe isn’t as obvious. So I shouldn’t laugh about that. When you start to try it, when you start to evolve and you start to do the things that they want. I think you really feel the difference, not just from, oh, they’re happier, but I think you usually are happier as well. You get more out of that relationship with that person because there’s more. There’s more success, if you will, in the communication.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:39:09 I know I love that, and so I was only smiling because, as you were saying, the teachers and how they’d like to be treated, I to do that treat each other people how they’d like to be treated. And the only way you know that is to ask them. But there is some, some scientific proof that actually we, we get a better hit as human beings for doing something for somebody else than we get for them doing something for us.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:39:32 So when we take the time to find out how they’d like to be treated and then make the effort to treat them that way, we feel better about ourselves. So not only do they feel good, so when we’re talking about like everyone feels better somehow it’s scientifically proven that actually we get more of a kick out of doing something for the other person than we do about. About, having something done for us. And so everybody grows as a result of that. honestly, I could chat to you all day, and I am just very conscious about. The psychological barriers we’ve gone way over. So I love to continue the conversation, but I’m conscious of time. So in the interest of time, if there was one thing you could share that you wished that you’d known sooner than you did, what would it be?
Mike Lane-Evans 00:40:25 I don’t know, quite. I don’t know if I’m going to word this in the right way, but, not knowing is okay.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:40:33 Yeah.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:40:34 Because quick sort of explanation on that. Like I said earlier in this podcast, you know, it took me a good few years to kind of transition out of acting.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:40:44 And one of the reasons and I see this a lot, I thought when I first left acting, this was something I saw a lot in the acting industry. But now I work across multiple industries. I see it everywhere and people may have loved what they did. They may have liked what they did, and they maybe don’t hate what they do now. It’s just not really where they want to be. It doesn’t align. It’s not fitting with their family changes, their life changes and everything. But I don’t know what else to do. Like I don’t know what what’s next or what’s out there or like what would actually fit all these many tick boxes that I’ve got now with family and lifestyle. And so I kind of stay here sometimes out of apathy, sometimes out of fear, sometimes out of just not knowing. And so I think not knowing is okay. So that’s what I wish I’d known sooner.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:41:30 I love that, and it is so true because we sometimes feel the need to have the answer.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:41:35 And actually it’s okay not to have the answers, okay? Not to, know what’s next. might you shed such amazing insight? How did people get in touch with you?
Mike Lane-Evans 00:41:46 so you can email me. so our our website is forefront hyphen coaching.com forefront-coaching.com. and I’m just Mike at forefront coaching. Com. I’m on LinkedIn and, my surname is Lane Evans. I got married last year. We double barrelled our name. There are no other lane. Mike Lane Evans I think in the world because it’s a very long double barrelled name. so, so, yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. and I think if you never email me or like anybody in the, in the company, partly because you think, well, I can never afford those services or, you know, that’s not something that I need. Follow us on LinkedIn. Even if you don’t give us the actual follow and just check out some of the content, because our intention certainly from a few weeks ago, it’s been our intention for a while, but now you’re actually seeing it in fruition is there’s a lot of content going out for free podcast and blogs and videos and comments and things.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:42:49 And it’s is because we really want to make sure that the foundations of what we believe in communication, are accessible to everybody. So yes, if if you don’t want to actually send me an email or get in contact, check that stuff out, because hopefully there’s one nugget in there that will be helpful for for everybody.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:43:04 Amazing. I know that there are loads of nuggets in there because I watched your stuff and it is so impactful, and all of the details of how to get in touch will be in the show notes below. I just always think it’s nice that the guest gets a chance to say it, because it allows you to better connect with our lovely audience. So, Mike, thank you so very much for such a gracious conversation and for sharing such insight with us. I really appreciate it.
Mike Lane-Evans 00:43:30 Thank you.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:43:31 And to everybody watching. I hope you found it as insightful and enjoyable as I did. And until next time, take care.