Embracing Authenticity and Leadership: Insights from Nikki Avraam on “Authentic Achievements”
In a recent episode of the “Authentic Achievements” podcast, host Kim-Adele engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Nikki Avraam, a legal entrepreneur specialising in employment and discrimination law. This episode is a treasure trove of insights on leadership, workplace culture, and personal development. Nikki’s unconventional legal journey, leadership philosophy, and emphasis on authenticity and empowerment in the workplace offer valuable lessons for professionals across industries.
Nikki’s Journey and Leadership Philosophy
From Traditional Law to Employment and Discrimination Law
Nikki’s journey in the legal industry is a testament to the courage and boldness required to embrace authenticity. She began her career with a clear vision to make a significant impact, which led her to reject a traditional commercial law role in favour of employment and discrimination law. Recognising the potential for growth and impact in this area, Nikki proposed the creation of a new department within her firm. This bold move was driven by her desire to assert her identity and help the firm and its clients thrive.
Leadership Evolution: From Top-Down to Empowerment
Initially, Nikki adopted a top-down leadership approach, believing that her passion and vision would naturally inspire her team. However, she soon realised that this method stifled creativity and engagement. A pivotal moment in her career led her to become an enabler and empowerer, focusing on being a custodian of her team’s career journeys. This shift in her leadership style was a significant turning point, as Nikki now believes that authentic leadership fosters an environment where individuals feel invigorated and inspired by their work.
The Importance of Authenticity
Bringing Your Whole Self to Work
Nikki discusses the significance of bringing one’s whole self to work. She shares her experiences of needing to hide aspects of her identity, such as removing her wedding ring during partnership interviews to avoid assumptions about her commitment to work. This experience taught her the value of vulnerability and authenticity in leadership. By embracing her identity as a wife and mother, Nikki found that she could inspire others to do the same, creating a culture of openness and diversity of thought within organisations.
Kim’s Resonance with Authenticity
Kim resonates with Nikki’s experiences, sharing her journey of shedding the “armour” she wore in the corporate world. Both speakers agree that embracing one’s true self enhances personal fulfilment and contributes to a more engaged and innovative workplace culture.
Lessons Learned
Asserting Identity and Aligning Strengths
Nikki highlights the need to assert one’s identity and bring personal experiences to work. She encourages individuals to align their strengths, passions, and goals with those of their organisations, fostering a sense of ownership and engagement. This alignment of personal experiences with work is key to creating a fulfilling and engaging professional life.
The Role of Mentorship
Nikki emphasises the pivotal role of mentorship in personal and professional growth. She believes that having mentors who understand one’s vision and can provide guidance is crucial. Additionally, she advocates for organisations to create structured mentorship programs that facilitate learning and collaboration across generations and experiences.
Creating a Culture of Curiosity
Encouraging Open-Mindedness and Inquisitiveness
Kim and Nikki discuss the importance of fostering a culture of curiosity within organisations. They believe encouraging individuals to be open-minded and curious can lead to more significant innovation and engagement. Nikki shares her belief that organisations should not only focus on their employees’ technical skills but also on the unique perspectives and experiences they bring to the table.
Leadership Lessons from a Greek Cypriot Upbringing
Hospitality and Entrepreneurial Spirit
Nikki draws on her upbringing in a Greek Cypriot household, where hospitality and entrepreneurial spirit were central values. She shares that these principles have shaped her approach to leadership, emphasising the importance of holding clients’ hands and providing exceptional service. By applying these lessons to her work, Nikki has created a supportive and engaging environment for her team and clients.
Embracing Change and Igniting Passion
Overcoming Fear and Embracing Boldness
Throughout the episode, Kim and Nikki stress the importance of embracing change and igniting passion in one’s career. They discuss the significance of clarity in one’s mission and purpose. Kim emphasises that many people are adept at identifying what they don’t want in their careers but struggle to articulate what they truly desire. Nikki agrees, noting that finding what ignites one’s passion is crucial for overcoming fear and embracing boldness in pursuing new opportunities.
Continuous Growth and Pushing Comfort Zones
Nikki describes her journey as continuous growth, where she regularly engages in activities that push her beyond her comfort zone. She acknowledges that this process is ongoing and that she still faces challenges. However, her commitment to her mission has empowered her to embrace her identity and confidently pursue her goals.
Core Values and Trusting Instincts
Aligning with Core Values
Nikki emphasises the importance of understanding and aligning with one’s core values. She reflects on her past experiences, where misalignment with her values led to sleepless nights and discomfort. Nikki believes individuals can navigate their careers more effectively and flexibly by recognising and adhering to her core values—integrity and honesty.
Trusting Instincts
Trusting one’s instincts is another crucial piece of advice Nikki shares. She encourages listeners to be aware of their gut feelings and to have the confidence to act on them. This self-awareness and understanding of one’s values can lead to a more fulfilling and authentic professional life.
In the episode’s final moments, Nikki shares her mission to help individuals and organisations cultivate a culture of engagement and innovation. She invites listeners to connect with her on platforms like Instagram and LinkedIn, where she shares insights and resources about leadership and workplace culture.
Kim expresses her gratitude to Nikki for sharing her experiences and insights, highlighting the inspiring nature of their conversation. The episode concludes with a reminder for listeners to embrace their passions, trust their instincts, and strive for authenticity in their professional lives.
Key Takeaways:
Embrace Authenticity: Bringing your whole self to work fosters a culture of openness and innovation.
Empower Your Team: Shift from a top-down leadership approach to one that empowers and inspires.
Align with Core Values: Understanding and adhering to your core values can guide your career decisions.
Foster Curiosity: Encourage open-mindedness and inquisitiveness within your organisation.
Trust Your Instincts: Be aware of your gut feelings and be confident to act on them.
This episode of “Authentic Achievements” powerfully reminds us of the importance of authenticity, self-awareness, and the courage to pursue one’s mission in the ever-evolving work landscape. By embracing these principles, individuals and organisations can thrive, leading to greater fulfilment and success in the professional realm.
Connect with Niki:
Connect with Niki on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn
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Transcript: Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze
Kim-Adele Randall 00:00:07 Hello and welcome to today’s episode of Authentic Achievements, where it’s my absolute privilege to be joined by the fabulous Nikki. Avraam. Nikki, welcome.
Niki Avraam 00:00:17 Thanks, Kim. Thanks for having me.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:00:19 I’m so looking forward to this conversation, and judging by the conversation we’ve already had in the green room, I think it’s one. But before we get really stuck in as as we’ve already proved, we can let me share with the wider audience a little bit more about you. So Nikki stands at the forefront of a transformative movement in leadership and workplace evolution. A legal entrepreneur with a rich background in employment and discrimination law, Nikki’s journey has been distinguished by litigating high profile cases and founding the London law firm Howard Avram Solicitors, a compelling keynote speaker on leadership, mindset and future workforce issues. Nikki offers a roadmap for reinvigorating professional engagement. Her concept of preferred discomfort encourages embracing growth beyond comfort zones, while her insights on the authenticity trap highlight the importance of versatility in discovering one’s true potential as a leader and an innovator. Nikki, I love that.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:01:13 And as you know from before, we’re clearly aligned on that. I often think we’ve got to learn to be comfortable with the uncomfortable, so I can’t wait to get into that debate. Can you tell me a little bit more and tell our audience a little bit more about your journey so far? What brought you here?
Niki Avraam 00:01:29 Well, that was a mouthful, so I’ll, Yeah. I’ll try. I’ll try and summarize it. It’s, I mean, I, I refer a lot to my unconventional journey. I gave a keynote talk the other day called Miss Unconventional Reality. And that’s about breaking the conventions of a very rigid industry, which is law. And it I mean, it doesn’t have to be a radical act. I started my career rejecting the job role that was offered to me in commercial law. very clear, delineated career path. Mum and dad would have been proud, but I turned it down because I saw scope for growth in employment and discrimination law. So I put a business plan on the table and proposed to build a brand new department.
Niki Avraam 00:02:11 There was loads of stuff coming in from Europe, lots of legislation. I thought I could have impact, assert my own identity, but also I wanted to help the firm and its clients grow and thrive, and I was completely invested in what I was doing. I truly felt like I had that personal stake in the success of the firm, and I believe it accelerated my growth and also added immense value to the firm. So a lot of what I talk about now, which is centered around having agency over what we do, it’s derived from that, that initial experience and then going on to build other departments and founding my own from ten years ago. But also it’s reflecting on my journey as a leader as well, because I, I was a very top down leader in the earlier days, so I thought my passion and vision could trickle down to everyone else and they would just, you know, enjoy the ride. I found that that approach stifled people, and as soon as I kind of switched, I had this big light bulb.
Niki Avraam 00:03:18 I became more of an enabler and empower. And now I say a big part of being a leader is being a custodian of people’s career journey. Yeah. And that’s from my experience again. And also being in the bones of businesses, different businesses fighting those cases, but also looking at how can we prevent those cases from arising and how can we look at workforce culture and ensure that people are engaged in what they do? That’s that’s what leads the success of organisations and individuals. So fast forward to today. I am obsessed with this single mission, which is very simple, and that’s what we fall in love with work that we are invigorated and inspired by the work that we do. So fundamental. Right. And it’s how organizations and individuals thrive. And it’s the it’s the only way. And that’s to have control over the work that we do and how we do it.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:04:20 I love this, and it’s so true. I think, you know, over the years, you know, the many organizations that I’ve worked for, for me, the kind of key breakthrough moment was when you’re able to help your team, have permission to be part of the solution so that they actually get to, to recognize that they are equal to as, as are you equal to and therefore all part of the solution.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:04:45 And we can we can start to play to our strengths. We can start to do the bits that, you know, I think outsourcing, we spend so much of our life working. We may as well enjoy it. We’re not going to go. We’re not doing it. And I love that. You’re kind of like passion is for creating that environment for more and more organizations so that you can have a bigger impact on the cultures that, that are being created in organizations and therefore the impact that those have on people within them. So what would you say has been the thing that the greatest lesson you’ve learned so far?
Niki Avraam 00:05:26 I mean, there’s lots, but the the, the greatest lesson is the importance. And it’s I love that, you know, looking at work as something that makes sure your sourcing we we should it’s our right. and one of the things that I think facilitates, enables that is bringing our own selves to work, asserting our identity and being able to express ourselves as sort of full human beings.
Niki Avraam 00:05:51 We have so much wisdom and learned experiences. I refer to it as bringing our wisdom toolbox to work, so why not? Why not align all of our strengths, passions, and goals with those of the organization and the the ownership culture underpins all of that. All of the pillars I talk about, it’s central to asserting our own identity. And there have been times in my journey where I haven’t done that, you know, before, I’m, I’m, I’m embarrassed to say now, but it’s a sign of the times I was removing my wedding rings at partnership interviews, interviews at bigger law firms for partnership positions. I was at a certain age where I thought, well, if I have my wedding ring on their list, they’ll know that I’m married, and then they’ll assume that I either have a child or I’m going to have children, and that will then interfere with, with, you know, my commitment to the job. So I used to do things like that. And really where this, this whole sort of body armor to work, to replicate what I thought a leader should be.
Niki Avraam 00:06:56 And the lawyer. Tough. Changemaker. Assertive. When I started my business ten years ago, I put that in the bin. I decided to present as a wife and mother, bring that to work, and really be passionate about the great service we were providing for clients. And now, by sharing all of that experience and showing that that vulnerability and being open about that journey, I feel that inspires others to do the same. And that’s why I’m compelled to talk about the importance of asserting our identity at work. I talk about it with students at universities, with managers, leaders, CEOs at every level. We have the lived experience to bring to work and those unique experiences is what creates that diversity of thought, which is integral to the success of any organization.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:07:54 I couldn’t agree more. And I’m smiling along because I do know what it was like to him to wear that armor. And I did cut my teeth in financial services and thought that, you know, my main tie wardrobe was black for work.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:08:09 Apart from the occasional bit of navy, just to mix it up and you try to present in a particular way, you know, to be like everybody else. And it was like, but actually, that’s not who I am, and that’s not how I am. And I remember being in an interview at one point and deciding to not it’s going to be a big job. And actually, if I’m going to do it and do it well, I’m going to have to be me. And so I’ve got to the end of that, that interview. And they asked the, chief people officer asked me if I could set myself up in a word, what would it be? And I remember looking at her and saying loud, and she looked a bit taken aback. Man, I’m sorry. Yeah. So you’ve known me for, what, 55 minutes and. Yeah. So do you think I’m loud? Shouldn’t. Well, yeah. It’s great. In that case, it’s self-aware and it’s honest. I’ll stick with it.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:08:55 And she goes, that got you the job. Because it was the first time in 19 years somebody hadn’t gone and motivational and driven. And this she said, you actually played something that a lot of people would see as a, as something that you should be vulnerable about. And I was like, but it’s how we how we share our vulnerability without losing our credibility. And it’s some line, isn’t it? But bringing your whole self to work and saying, this is, this is who I am. And my lived experience actually, as a mum, as a partner, as you know, as a friend has you in the in the business world because you if we chat before the shift away, I mean, children are the fiercest negotiator ever gonna come across. So as a mom navigating that you learn great skills, don’t you, to be able to take back into that purpose driven work that you’re trying to create?
Niki Avraam 00:09:47 Yeah. I mean, you know, bringing our whole selves to work. in some ways it’s an overused expression that we hear a lot.
Niki Avraam 00:09:54 It doesn’t mean sitting at your desk and crying every time you’re having a blue moment, or you’ve had or you’re having a bad morning, you know, you’ve been rushing to take the kids to school or something. It just means asserting your own personality and bringing your character into work. And there are so many, even if you the business case for that, we shouldn’t have to separate it as such. But even just looking at that, you know, we, we often think, okay, we have if we’re presented with a job role, for example, in the past there’s been that temptation to say to everyone, you have to mold yourselves around that role. As a young lawyer, if I followed that precedent, I would have been sitting in a backroom drafting contracts, and perhaps I’d be wheeled out a few years later to meet people, but I. I had an entrepreneurial upbringing and spirit that I wanted to bring into the legal industry, which wasn’t the done thing, but I had mentors that would collaborate with me on that, and that was really aligning my goals and my strengths with the job role.
Niki Avraam 00:11:04 I wasn’t just a lawyer, I was also a business developer. I was doing seminars. I was speaking from an early stage in my career. That was not the done thing. And that’s why I encourage from university level upwards. Even if you haven’t been into the working world before. Go in there and look at what your lived experiences have taught you and what you can bring to work to facilitate the role to add to it. Put your own stamp on it. That’s how people feel that they have a personal stake in the success and the well-being of any organization to assert your own leadership philosophy, even if you haven’t got the all the fancy titles that you know, give you that rank and file.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:11:49 I love that, but it’s true. We build that by the fact that, you know, every day and every interaction, we are leaving a legacy, whether we whether we like it or not, we are. but you’re advocating for actually owning that legacy, making sure that you are conscious about what that is and that you’ve given it the forethought to say, actually, what’s important to me, what are my values, what what do I want to do? And how does that align with the organization and how, therefore collective, can we both be stronger? Can we both thrive as a result of that commonality, but also that, being able to turn the volume up on your on your unique skills, your unique lived experience, your unique strengths that will augment where that organization’s going.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:12:39 But that can sometimes be be a hard thing to do. So and I imagine it, it wasn’t easy turning down the original job offers and going, I’m not going to take the traditional path and everybody else is taken. I’m going to forge a new path because that doesn’t work for me. I came up with a number of obstacles along the way. Could you tell us how do you how do you mentally overcome those to enable you to physically take those steps?
Niki Avraam 00:13:07 Yeah, I’ll just try to single out a couple of obstacles because there were many. but at that, you know, at that time, imagine the the structure and it’s still the case now structure of a lawyer in a law firm. You go in, you’re a newly qualified, then you become an associate, then you become senior, then you become a partner. Your remuneration is driven by that. Now, what happens when you try and break that mold and you bring in business, which takes some time. And it’s not just for earning work.
Niki Avraam 00:13:35 It meant that not all my colleagues were comfortable with that, in fact, that they were more than uncomfortable, you know. I had a reaction that where I could see that they they weren’t happy. They weren’t happy that I had that autonomy. They didn’t really know where I fit. It was things like having to fight my way onto business development functions at one time. And I can’t believe I say this. I’m not that old. there were there were male only business development functions. And who was going to those CEO of this and that company. They were the ones that would give us the business. And my argument there as a young lawyer, which wasn’t easy, was to say I should be there because they all have workforce challenges that they’re not only, you know, it’s not just mergers and acquisitions, they’re not just buying companies or real estate. They have a workforce and therefore they need an employment lawyer or they might need one. And so in doing that, I was able to present that business case, but also very aware that I was a woman going in.
Niki Avraam 00:14:42 And it was and I always looked at my job as, how can I have a wider impact in the world? And part of that was I want to pave the way for other women to go. That’s just not right or fair. It’s frankly discriminatory. Those are some of the obstacles. I didn’t raise grievances about any of this, but it was things that it made it difficult in a way. But I was so driven by this overall mission, I was so invested that I could go go forwards. I mean, I did my mentors did collaborate with me. but it all, all of that package meant that I could overcome those obstacles because I had this wider picture. I think it’s very important for people to look at how how can you reframe your your job? And then what’s the job that I’m doing? Look at the granular tasks. What can I add to it. But what is the wider impact that I’m having? And I think it’s incumbent on organizations to refresh on all of those things, not just in the crafting of the role, but the reframing of it.
Niki Avraam 00:15:51 All of that, really. It was it was so important in my in my development and how I moved forward. And I have practiced that and seen the difference that that makes to people. That’s how you motivate people and that’s how you engage them. And that’s, you know, the big challenge we’re facing at the moment is one of apathy and disengagement. I believe in the way we work.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:16:15 I think, I mean, it’s so true. We are struggling from that disengagement and that, and how do we reengage people that have become disengaged? But I love that. Actually, what you’re sharing with people is that they can actually be part of that solution. So they can take some control and they can start to look at it and go, here’s how I think I can make a bigger difference. That’s going to have a bigger difference for me, too, because I’m going to feel more value in that. And then I did before. And you’ve also mentioned a couple of times throughout this conversation about mentors, and I wondered, how important do you think it is to find good mentors that are going to help you to achieve your vision?
Niki Avraam 00:16:56 I think it’s important, even if those mentors are outside of your immediate working environment.
Niki Avraam 00:17:02 if I look at the people that I mean, reading Simon Cynic’s book, I know it’s a bit old now and, you know, he wrote it, I think it was back in 2010. Start with Y that that was groundbreaking for me. because it really put a voice to everything that I believed. And I’m not saying find someone like Simon Sinek and go and knock on his door, but having mentors who understands where you want to go. Your vision is important, but also the the culture that’s really that that organizations can cultivate. And not not just manufacturing mentors in that way, but really putting a structure in place so that people have those, whether it be generational or not. Those relationships, I mean, I Airbnb, I read, I read the other day, I think they they label it as a mentor turn program where older people, younger people, less experienced people, people with more lived wisdom, they come together and they learn from each other. And that’s an actual structure that’s been put in place.
Niki Avraam 00:18:13 It’s it’s not just about getting lessons on AI and technology from the younger workforce. It’s about taking all the valuable gold dust from people and using that to add to people’s journeys. But I think having any type of mentorship or that culture where it’s a have your back versus watch your back environment is so important to people’s progression, and that’s what leads to people feeling that they can work outside of their comfort zones and take risks and innovate. That’s how organizations and individuals grow. It’s it’s if they feel safe to do that. And again, it is the responsibility of organizations to create those environments.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:19:02 I love that it’s so true. I think if we create the right environment for people, then to to your point, you give them a safe space where it’s okay to grow, because part of growing sometimes means failing, but it’s about being able to fail safe. So I learned from that. And then what did what did I do differently with it? And I The whole, All learning from each other. You know, my I, my grandparents shared two great pieces of advice.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:19:28 I think for me pretty much sums up life. So my nan said, make every day of school days when every day learn something. And if you’re open minded to that and you’re curious, you can learn something in every interaction. and my granddad said, don’t put off. Don’t put off till tomorrow. live each side. He didn’t. He said, live each day and one day you’ll be right. And I think what he meant by that was don’t put off till tomorrow something you can do today, because tomorrow is not promised. And I think between the two they kind of pretty much wanted to. but I think that, you know, how do we become more curious, more curious about each other, more curious about technology, more curious about what’s coming next? Because I think if we can create a culture of curiosity and, and then augment it with the right infrastructure and the right culture where people can grow and develop and learn. That’s where you start to see the real innovation of organizations, isn’t it? And I think you’ve had some, great examples of that.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:20:29 I wondered if you could share sort of some of your leadership lessons on how can you really take that and make a massive impact in an organization?
Niki Avraam 00:20:39 Well, I there are so many that and I, a lot of them are derived from life. And it was when I applied those to work I want to embody that. I wrote, I’ve written a series and I continue to write. It’s called Leadership Lessons for success, and the first one I wrote was called Leadership Lessons from a Greek Cypriot Kitchen. And that’s that story is really about applying the principles of hospitality to work and leadership. That was so inbuilt. We always had people around our house. Sundays was a big deal for us. We wanted to present the best version of our home and having that mentality say teamed with very entrepreneurial parents who had everything from a fish and chip shop to a hairdressing salon. So the dry cleaners, it meant that I knew from day one how to hold a client’s hands. I understood it instinctively, immediately, and that put me head and shoulders above some other lawyers who perhaps had more technical ability at the beginning.
Niki Avraam 00:21:42 But I knew how to look after the client. I knew how to translate all of the difficult legal words and the Latin and really to feel their journey with them. And and that’s really what a client wants and needs. You’re not just an officer of the court as a lawyer. And I was so passionate about that. And that was one of the founding principles when we started our firm that put the client at the center. And really that piece, Leadership Lessons from Greek Cypriot Kitchen, which I gave a talk on the other day, I’ve expanded that to say, this is about applying your life lessons to work in leadership. What is it? What have you got in your background? Were you in charge of organising the family parties? What happened to you growing up that you can really bring to work that sets you apart from from everyone else? You know, if we look at some of the stereotypical assumptions of different professions, like like a coder, for instance, right, you used you bring a coder to the floor who’s got great communication skills.
Niki Avraam 00:22:44 Oh, that’s brilliant seeing those two things together. Or an entrepreneurial accountant. You know, these are things that you wouldn’t often put together. An entrepreneurial lawyer. That’s that’s what that’s what helped me. What can you bring? Because there are a million lawyers out there and coders and entrepreneurs. What can you bring that makes that special? And how do organizations create environments where that is recognized and used? Otherwise you are missing out, missing out on people’s different perspectives and the way that they can help transform an organization when it needs it most.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:23:20 I love that it reminds me of something Stephen Bartlett said in a comment. Which of his books. But, where he was talking about the need for what he called stacked skill sets, where not just looking at like you might not be the best in the world technically as a lawyer, but you’re good, so you know, you’re in the top, top percent. But actually, what are the adjacent skills that might not normally be seen as needed in there? Like being entrepreneurial of spirit, being able to have really good emotional intelligence and connect with people that says, well, actually I got this plus this, plus this.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:23:55 And the some of those make me the best because actually those are the people are going to go in that one part. So it’s recognizing that actually we are the sum of all of our parts and, and those elements. I love that you’ve got lessons from from the, from the kitchen. You know, I always say one of my greatest leadership lessons came from being a hairdresser. So I first started out as a hairdresser and they taught you to listen to really understand what the other person wants, help them to try and achieve it, and to have them leave you feeling the best version of themselves. And so if you can do that for every client, whatever that you, I mean, ended up in financial services, but wherever they are, then actually you’ll be a good leader if you can do it for your people and help them feel better and achieve what they wanted to achieve and feel listened to. and I think, you know, you’ve already shared such amazing stories about how you create that connectivity.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:24:53 whether that’s for your team, whether that’s for your clients, whether that’s within a wider organisation. but how would you say what would you say has been your biggest challenge that you faced during this transition of moving from those traditional spaces to now establishing your practice to now actually being that thought leader, going out and sharing that lived experience, owning your story, sharing with other people so they can learn from it. What’s what’s been the biggest challenge?
Niki Avraam 00:25:27 The legal industry is what I’d call a heavy one. And it has a big stamp, a big label. I found it incredibly difficult to extract myself from the ultimate, that controlling, method of leading, and to step back and to really take a more strategic position. so I could really turn all of my attention to this mission of making everyone fall in love with their work and building a program around it and talking about it, that that really meant I was tested in terms of working outside of my comfort zone. I have been in my preferred discomfort, the intentional pursuit of working outside of our comfort zones more than ever in this transition.
Niki Avraam 00:26:11 Because when someone asks me, what do you do at a party or wherever? I don’t say any longer, lawyer boom. That gives you immediate gravitas. You’ve got a real job. You’re grown up. I don’t say that anymore. I kind of harp on about my mission, and whatever I do, it has to facilitate that. Whether I’m speaking, writing, building programs, doing masterclasses, it facilitates my mission, and that’s all I care about. I say as part of my background, I’m an employment and discrimination lawyer by trade, and this is my journey. That’s why I talk about this stuff. But my biggest learning is stepping back from that and being comfortable with it. That’s taken an awfully long time. It hasn’t happened overnight and any transition, I think has to be that journey. It’s very rare that you’re in the shower one day and you have an instant idea about what you want to do next. You have to get out there and practice and do and talk to people in order to figure it out.
Niki Avraam 00:27:13 I really must have sounded like a crazy person when I was. I started to go to events, not as a lawyer. I had a different outfit on and I was talking about other things I was doing. I think I was just, you know, talking and talking, and I don’t think people actually got what I was about, what I was doing. I needed to go through that process. And now I’m, I’m so bold and and it’s not finished product. Right? I’m still uncomfortable. I do things outside of my comfort zone almost every day, but it’s I’m so comfortable with the mission and so bold about how I’m going to do it, what I want to do, that I’m more comfortable growing out of that, that heavy lawyer label, and I think it’s important for people not to feel shackled by those by those labels, and to look more at life as as different missions may be. I have found that incredibly helpful. It’s help my whole identity, and I also think it’s relevant to the future of work, how we move forward, because there is less need for that really in-depth, linear approach to a job or to professional development.
Niki Avraam 00:28:31 I think we do need to be more multifaceted and dynamic moving forward. There, there will be and there is more pivoting between roles and even industries. and I and that’s I talk about that a lot. I think actually some of the younger generation are a lot better at understanding and appreciating that.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:28:51 So I love that. And it is so true. I think there is more movement. I remember when I first moved and I’ve moved through numerous industries now, but the first one, even now, you can’t do that now because we’re supposed to you’re supposed to be an industry expert. That’s your second label to add to your first one, which is whatever it is that you do. And then we create them until a bit that’s coming through, you know, loud and clear for me, though, is it’s about having real clarity on your mission, on your purpose, on the what you want to achieve and why you want to achieve that. Because very often, you know, in the work that I do, what I find is people are really good at knowing what they don’t want, but they haven’t done it, which is okay.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:29:32 So what do you want? I’ve got a big list of things you don’t want, but what do you really want? And how do you get excited and ignited by that? And then that gives you to, to use your term, the boldness to actually go into the uncomfortable zone. Go into that or to your, to use your term that preferred discomfort to, to give yourself that permission to take that next step because you what you’re doing it for is. Is much greater than whatever the fear is that you’re feeling. Would that be fair?
Niki Avraam 00:30:08 Yes, yes. And you have presented another I word because I talk about being invigorated, inspired, ignited is perhaps the best one because that that makes me feel like fire, the fire inside of you, lighting you up.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:30:25 And to be fair, that’s that was the word that I got from what you what you were saying. You can see when you talk about it that it ignites you, you can see it lights you up. And I think for me, you know, that’s what we that’s what we’re all here to do, is find the thing that ignites us, that likes us, that allows us to then take our passion and our energy and leave a positive impact on the world, on the world around us.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:30:47 and I think once you find that which you see that light in somebody, that, you know, they’re going to be successful, you know, they’re going to drive through because you can’t dim that light Once you’ve found it. And I think for me that it was so obvious in that in our conversation and in everything you do and say that you are ignited by this passion, and that’s going to be what drives that boldness and that impact.
Niki Avraam 00:31:13 Too, right? And I think, I think we deserve to have that. We all deserve to have that.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:31:19 Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more. Nikki, I could chat to you all day. I’m really conscious of time. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this. can I ask you the one thing I ask everybody before? Before we go is, if you could go back and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be?
Niki Avraam 00:31:38 I’m going to have to repeat myself in some ways, but it is the it. It is being committed to your identity, bringing, bringing it to work.
Niki Avraam 00:31:48 And alongside that comes the age old trust your instincts, you know, and being really aware of what your core values are now. I’ve always felt those core values. I didn’t always align what I was doing with them and even including people that are, you know, I was going into business with if their core values and some of mine are integrity, honesty. I’m not that like the beacon of truth, but they are important to me. If you go into business or if you’re doing something and that doesn’t align with your core values, then it gives you all sorts of pain. And I experienced that pain. I had sleepless nights because of that. If you’re aware of your core values, you can be flexible and agile because you know what your core values are. So all the all the rest is malleable. You know, you can change, you can go forward as long as you stick to those core values and part. And that is partly trusting your instincts and having the confidence to do that. I didn’t always, as in my my younger, less experienced Experience days.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:32:55 I love that, that’s really great advice. And I think we do sometimes dismiss our instinct, don’t we? We we kind of because immediately we’ve had the gut instinct. Then our thinking brain will come in and give us all, all the saying things of why we shouldn’t do, do those things. But once we know and we know what’s important to us, we understand our values, and therefore we can understand whether or not these things fit. It does make life so much easier. Thank you for sharing such great advice. Before we go, Nikki, how can people get in touch with you and who would? Who do you help?
Niki Avraam 00:33:28 I help individuals and organizations help individuals to understand their leadership philosophy so that they can ignite, enable teams to thrive and and innovate. And that’s really underpinned by by those pillars around the ownership culture. it’s really about addressing that disengagement and being invigorated by work, falling in love with work again. So I help both individuals and organizations to do that. My main platforms are Instagram and LinkedIn.
Niki Avraam 00:34:03 There’s not. There are not too many Nikki Abrams Nikki spelt with one K, so it’s pretty easy to find me. And everything you need to know is on my website it’s Nikki avram.com.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:34:14 Amazing. Nikki, thank you so much. And for everybody listening and watching all of the contact details for how you can connect with Nikki or in the show notes below. But I’d just like to say thank you so very much for coming and sharing your lived experience with us and such insight. It’s been an absolute joy. Nikki. Thank you.
Niki Avraam 00:34:32 What an amazing show. Thank you Kim, thanks so much.
Kim-Adele Randall 00:34:35 Thank you. I hope everybody listening and watching has found it as inspiring and engaging and igniting as I have. And until next time, take care.