Authentic Achievements with Special Guest Professor Shivani Sharma
Breaking Boundaries with Professor Shivani Sharma
In this insightful episode of Authentic Achievements, host Kim-Adele Randall is joined by the inspiring Professor Shivani Sharma. As a leading figure in promoting people, culture, and inclusion at Aston University, Professor Sharma shares her journey and the key milestones that have shaped her illustrious career.
Bio:
Professor Shivani Sharma is the Deputy Dean (People, Culture, Inclusion) at Aston University’s College of Business and Social Sciences. With a background in psychology, she is recognized by the Women of the Future Programme in association with KPMG as one of the 50 ‘Leading Lights’ in the UK, exemplifying kindness.
We delve into her role as Deputy Dean, her background in psychology, and her recognition as one of the UK’s ‘Leading Lights’ in exemplifying kindness. Professor Sharma provides valuable insights into the importance of inclusivity in education and business and how kindness can be a powerful force in leadership and personal development.
Key Takeaways:
– The significance of promoting diversity and inclusion in educational institutions and workplaces.
– How psychological principles can be applied to enhance organizational culture.
– Professor Sharma’s personal journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way.
– Strategies for overcoming self-limiting beliefs and realizing your full potential.
Call to Action:
Don’t let your own thinking constrain your potential. Embrace new perspectives, challenge your boundaries, and strive for authentic achievements in every aspect of your life.
Connect with Shivani:
- Website: https://research.aston.ac.uk/en/persons/shivani-sharma)
- LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/prof-shivanisharma/
Final Note:
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Transcript:
[Music]
0:06[Applause] hello and welcome to today’s episode of authentic achievements where I’m
0:11absolutely thrilled to be joined by The Fabulous Professor Shian sham hello and
0:17welcome hello and thank you for having me oh I’m so looking forward to this when we when we met just last month we
0:24got on so famously that I know that this is going to be such a great conversation but before we get into it let me
0:30introduce you a little bit more formally um to our audience um so Professor Shian
0:36Sharma is Deputy dean of people culture and inclusion in Aston University’s
0:41College of Business School and social sciences she’s a psychologist by background and listed at one of 50
0:47leading lights in the UK exemplifying kindness by the women of the future program in association with KPMG and
0:55that really is just the tip of the iceberg isn’t it so could you tell us a little bit more
1:00about your journey so far right well I think probably thank you for that question it’s probably
1:06easier to start right at the beginning um as a 16 17 year old I was quite
1:12motivated mostly by having watched ER throughout my teen years to pursue uh
1:18medicine uh but a family member of mine who is um always hates me going on
1:24podcasts I should say because I always tell this story uh my brother-in-law is a GP and was helping me with my
1:30chemistry homework and I got my first ever zero out of 10 and then decided I should probably pursue something else um
1:39and much to my parents dismay I decided to go into psychology uh both for a
1:45level study and then at University I suppose I sort of had a plan thereafter what I would do in terms
1:52of an MSC traditionally and then uh work as a as a chartered psychologist through
1:57further training but um I just took up an opportunity that came up to do a PhD
2:04which I often admit that I didn’t know what that entailed or what it would mean for me at the time but I went with the
2:10advice I was given and during the final year of my PhD I was actually appointed
2:16at the University where I was studying um in a managing a project around the
2:22university and that quickly acted to propel me into management as well in this context um and I’ve since
2:30maintained that trajectory of always being in a sort of academic management post and doing research on health
2:37inequalities alongside um I spent quite a long time at the University where I was
2:42originally based and I’ve only recently moved to ason actually leading up to the podcast today realized I’m almost at the
2:49six month Mark wow um and alongside that I think community and connection is
2:55really important to me so I’ve always tried to maintain some sort of trusty
3:00board level or voluntary roles alongside so yeah always had academic management
3:06and research going along side really amazing and I love that like you’ve you’ve kind of been given opportunities
3:13but you’ve had the courage to take them because I think sometimes that can be one of the challenges can’t it we we
3:18kind of are given an opportunity and then we we spend too much time in our head coming up with all the reasons why
3:25we’re not ready to be doing that yet um is that is that something that is common
3:31for for all of us is is that something your Studies have shown that is a challenge for us you mean in terms of
3:38not having The Bravery I suppose to step outside of comfort zone yeah I mean I
3:43think we see it all the time don’t we I mean when I first had a academic management role somebody I knew in the
3:49charity sector told me you know the kinds of things that you need to get used to that are constants in life their
3:54work at the time were taxes death and organizational change so we know I think
4:00that’s a famous saying that comes from somewhere but I don’t know where to attribute it to but that’s always stuck with me that actually a lot of what I do
4:08is around you know in response to challenges within organizations or those
4:14that are external and how that impacts change programs within U whether it’s
4:19the university sector or other charitable work that I’ve been involved in it’s always at the heart of it
4:25usually a people project because we all vary in how much and and how well we
4:30adapt to change and change means different people different things to different people depending on its scale
4:36as well something that may seem trivial to me is actually quite important and a big deal to
4:42others but what that’s encouraged me to do is because actually a big part of my PhD was looking at habits and habit
4:49formation is to always have Right Center to any project I start is what is the
4:55impact of this going to be on others and have we thought through all those bases um and I myself I think you know like
5:02everybody else there is change that I’m comfortable with and change that I’m not but I think I’ve always just accept it’s
5:08an inevitable the kinds of roles that I’m involved in leading and also
5:14impacted by directly so I try to have the approach r with it see where it takes you and that’s I suppose true to
5:22my internal style which my husband finds quite odd because um I’m generally very
5:27risk averse I’m that person that’s not you know ever going to take risks in that way but when it comes to change and
5:34just flowing with things I generally tend to cope with that quite well yeah I
5:39love that because I think change is I always used to say when I was running big um teams change is the only constant
5:47um then once you realize it is constantly changing then actually you can start to become a little bit more
5:52comfortable with it but what I love is the fact that you brought out that almost all projects end up being people
5:58projects because people people will be involved in them at some point and the minute you put people into it it has a
6:05new Dynamic doesn’t it you know because we’re we’re very different and often messy and Confused got other challenges
6:12that that are going on and it’s the part that sometimes we forget to plan for
6:18which is actually how are the people going to handle this what impact is it
6:24going to have on them um and I think the fact that you are are planning that at
6:30the start must make the change itself easier because you already anticipated
6:35that that’s a dynamic that needs to be considered yeah absolutely and I think
6:42one thing that you’ve just made me think about which is really important is that we forget like you say people are people
6:49are people they have lives lives aren’t always um uncomplicated or or or or
6:56always straightforward and you can’t leave that at the door despite your best efforts you know there
7:03are I can often remember in my previous role because I was much more involved in directly line managing and appraising
7:10colleagues sometimes when I heard about things that were going on in their you know everyday life I was really taken
7:15back that wow you still come to work and you’re you know getting on with because it’s not always a positive issue that
7:22they might be managing so that’s always I think that we have to remember that people don’t just leave some part of
7:29themselves at the door when they come in and and therefore when you’re managing change programs you have to be really
7:34sensitive or any kind of change to that that is going to land on different people differently because of what’s
7:40going on for them in and outside of the workplace as well so that is something that I try to retain but it’s not always
7:48easy so um you mentioned earlier around the kindness
7:53um Leading Light so people often ask me in response to that like is it just
7:59something that you do intuitively but actually I think kindness takes time to train and just how um we have
8:05development programs that focus on different skills I think organizations and people themselves that value this as
8:11an attribute and want to be known for this to be you know part and parcel of their everyday organizational values and
8:18culture you have to make an effort to then action that because when you’ve got
8:23you know fast-paced changes things that are external to your environment that
8:29you’re man managing competition in most business environments now in crowded markets all
8:35of that pressure when you’re trying to navigate through that sometimes it is difficult to maintain your kindness
8:41especially if you’ve got something going on at home as well so how we behaviorally train that how it shows up
8:47for people in the workplace I think is something we need to focus on so that when we are initiating any change or
8:54just going about our day-to-day operation whatever your role is in an organization that we bring that value
8:59with with us is it’s really easy to forget it’s not automatic though we all
9:05intuitively naturally as humans respond well to kindness yeah it’s it’s it’s
9:11interesting isn’t it it’s one of those um it’s one of those soft skills it always makes me smile whatever we say
9:16about soft skills because if they really were so soft why do people find them so hard it’s the things they dismiss but
9:23they can’t do for themselves but I think you’re right kindness is is one that we have to it takes focus and and often
9:31what I found over the years is when you’ve got people who are really kind they might be really kind to everybody
9:36else but they’re not often very kind to themselves and I know I definitely fell in that camp um quite quite a lot and
9:42learning to be kind to myself as well as kind to others took real effort and it’s
9:50still something I have to really focus in on be because you can get a little
9:55bit lost in there can’t you being trying to do what everybody else wants you to do and forgetting that you have to do
10:01what some things for yourself as well abely all just it all just goes nowhere
10:08doesn’t it so and that kind of brought me to to a question about self-kindness and and why self-kindness matters for
10:15Career Success which I know is something you we ched about before but I’d love to explore a little bit in more
10:22detail yeah where to start on that one self-kindness so it’s something that I’m
10:28continually learning in more about um and I think partly my background in
10:35having done an undergraduate degree in Psychology sort of forces you quite early on to think about what self-kindness means but my um I actually
10:43outside of work do uh Indian classical Dance I’m training in Indian classical dance and my um teacher always says to
10:51me an Indian that you need to be greedy and and she means that in a context of greedy for knowledge thirst for learning
10:59um and I find that that greediness fits into all aspects of my life so I want to you know have the family I want to show
11:06up and be there for my kids in the best possible way at work I’m hungry for myself the organization as well as the
11:12people that I work with and their development and then I want to pursue research as well so all the negative
11:20side of that can be that there’s always a continual pressure that you’re putting on yourself and I I think especially
11:26nowadays where people are trying to look for OCC ations much more so than previously where they definitely find a
11:33sense of purpose or and you know lots of people making um decisions about what they want to work on based on social
11:40justice or alike it can be hard to find that balance when your purpose is also
11:45so intertwined with your work so I’ve started to actually make sure that I schedule time for reflection which I
11:52know is absolutely important for your everyday practice but also just times where I’m absolutely not engaged with
12:00um looking at my phone or doing anything that is work related no matter how much
12:05passion and dedication I have towards that so I think that is some of the ways
12:10um but also just scaling down some it’s not that I’m not ambitious but I’ve learned over time that you need to have
12:19targets that are stretched for yourself but still you know you’re not going to constantly be sitting there beating
12:24yourself up over why I didn’t so if I give you a practical example I’ve always been in lead ship positions since the
12:31beginning of my career whereas lots of my um you know people who did their PHD with me and went into other universities
12:37that maybe not have that trajectory and when we’d meet up socially be like oh I published X number of papers this year
12:44and I’m doing X and I’d always sit there think oh I haven’t even done one yet or two but it took me time to realize it’s
12:50okay because I don’t have the same demands and challenges and workload on an everyday basis so if I scale back my
12:57expectation on myself that really did help me so I think when I’m setting objectives I try to be really kind to
13:04myself from the beginning that what’s realistic and a bit stretched generally to get that balance of the two things
13:10but also making sure because purpose is such a big part of my everyday work that
13:16I do make time to actually switch off from it and come back a bit refreshed I love that because it’s so
13:21important isn’t it because when we when we take that that moment to refresh ourselves we come back with fresh eyes
13:28so actually I always find I’m probably significantly more productive when I come back than I was if I just sat there
13:35went no no just keep going um but it took me a long time to realize that it took me a long time to realize that
13:40actually taking that half an hour or so and switching off and and going I’m just not going to think about those things
13:45I’m going to think about something else I had um it’ be a long-standing joke with an organization that I worked in
13:52that they loved when things went wrong um because I love cooking when everything went wrong I best way I could
13:58find to do with it was I’d go and cook something and it always used to be a French lemon tart you have to just stand and stir it for half an hour you can’t
14:05do anything elsewise it’s ruined um so I go in the next day these lemon tarts
14:10like can we just destroy something else and she bakes again I was like no no don’t um but I found that half an hour
14:17of just having to focus on something different and something that I I enjoyed
14:23doing really helped me to process inadvertently when I next came back and
14:28sat sound it’s funny how you your subconscious brain seems to still be answering the problem for you doesn’t it
14:35and in the process I love the example you gave being around food um because I
14:41find at work I often do a lot of baking with my kids on the weekend or when
14:46you’re making I I eat a lot of Indian food so when you’re making Indian food like usually you make quite a lot anyway
14:53so I’ll often you know ask my work colleagues on teams is anyone around tomorrow do you fancy some you know
14:59lentils for lunch and they oh you know but it does create that moment of connection so something that’s enjoyable
15:04for me and giving me down time actually I find that I can bring into the workplace that’s creating moments of
15:11connection and in some ways can be really kind not just the act of sharing but you know I think post pandemic
15:18particularly people are still feeling quite isolated lonely and you never know what gesture you made in the workplace
15:25has actually really had a profound impact on someone else who perhaps spends the evenings alone or you know is
15:32is any other issue that they’re experiencing where that connection made a bigger difference for them in that
15:37moment it’s so true because we don’t know what’s going on in other people’s lives do we and sometimes the simplest
15:43little thing um can mean the most to somebody else because it meant you thought about them and I I think you I
15:50do the same as you I spend a lot of time cooking with Scarlet at the the weekends and things um and it’s it’s about time
15:57kids love it because you’re giving them their time plus you’re learning something plus to get something nice to eat at the end of it but then when you
16:04give that to somebody else you are also giving them your time because it took your time to do that and time is so
16:10precious isn’t it I think it is one of those I think it’s the gift that keeps on giving because it gives to the person
16:16you’re giving it to and it also gives to you as the person giving it doesn’t it
16:21I’m definitely learning when I’m cooking with my children because they’ve got this obsession with let’s make videos and you can put it for us on your
16:28Instagram M me orik so I’m having to learn the technical skills to do that but also it’s contagious right kindness
16:35in the workplace I and in anyway there is research evidence that shows that
16:40people who receive acts of kindness are more likely to perpetuate them and coming back to this food example you
16:46tell I’m a big foodie when I started in my new workplace I remember saying oh sunset’s going on holiday what are they
16:52going to bring back with them and they were very much like we don’t we don’t do that here but when I came in and was
16:58constantly bringing food now someone goes away they bring back Turkish delight or they bring back chocolate so it’s something that I innocently started
17:05off but is is continuing as a nice workplace cultural habit I love that
17:11because it is about that Community isn’t it Community is so important that sense of belonging and I think you when we
17:17moved into um the pandemic and and you we all became less connected um we saw
17:24the impact of of that loss of community and that that loss of of connection and people just craved it didn’t they and I
17:31think now having having that as a key skill As Leaders is so vital in the F
17:36for you for our success in the future which is how do we create not only the
17:42right culture but the right Community for our teams for them to be able to not
17:47just survive but Thrive and really um have that that safe place to to kind of grow
17:55and develop and just check in and make sure um that we’re okay because we lost
18:01I us to call it the virtual water cooler moments you know when you when you’re in an office with somebody there will be a
18:06moment where you don’t talk business you’ll ask them about what they watched last night or tell them to dress
18:12whatever it is but you won’t get into a lift with somebody in say nothing if you knew them but when we’re not connected
18:18in the same way you’ve got to actually make effort to put that back in haven’t you you do but I suppose there are ways
18:25to keep it going so I was always really Keen because you know during the pandemic particularly I was managing
18:31quite a large area um that we have online coffees and we do things and I
18:36find now even if I’m working from home but a colleague is in or vice versa I say oh do you want to have catchup
18:42coffee it’s not ever the same as being in but I also think it’s so much more
18:48important to focus on these things because you know with cost of living crisis and other things all businesses
18:54have got so many demands and challenges on them it can be really easy to focus on the end output and it’s kind of a
19:00given that people are part of organizations and we all say people make organizations and their commitment their
19:06engagement is what you know delivers the outcomes but it’s I often find that
19:12majority of the time I’ll be putting my hand say can we remember the people in whatever role that I have been in
19:17because it’s easy to be so outcome and task focused that we can forget that as you said all the softer stuff and all
19:24taking people on a journey I genuinely think that any change program or anything you’re trying
19:30to do almost needs a people plan alongside it so that you have that lens throughout which is great for me because
19:37that’s exactly the kind of role that has been you know um promoted at the
19:43University it’s a new role that I’m in I’m the only one that has it at the moment as part of an executive but I
19:49think that’s because I’m very fortunate to be working with a senior leader who was also championed that throughout
19:55their career um yeah so that’s what skill and when they see it for them you
20:00when they see it for themselves I remember I was um a clients a couple of years ago and the CEO that there was
20:07right for you because you do the fluffy people stuff don’t you and I was like I do I do the fluffy people stuff and that
20:12fluffy people stuff has just put 600,000 on your bottom line in the last three months using your statistics would you
20:19like me to share with you what they are and like looked a bit taken back and that your absence was here it’s now here
20:24and and your retention was here and and I said just on those three I said that’s before we take into account the fact that they were here and you’ve got
20:30retained knowledge I could possibly claim some of the uplift in Revenue but I’ll let you decide and it went you’re
20:36not that I love that I can imagine you saying that too having only met you twice um and he was like you’re not that
20:43fluffy are you and I was like no not really I said but it’s I’ve always known if I get it right with the people the
20:50people will get it right for the customers and then the company will get what it needs but we have to get it
20:56right for the people if we deliver a really bad service to them as a leader
21:02we can’t expect them to deliver a really good service to the customer because we’re not we’re not demonstrating that
21:09we’re not demonstrating what we want them to do I said so surely that’s where our focus should be and yet you’re so
21:14right so often that’s the bit that’s missed we spend so much time resource
21:19and money on building business plans and if we’re really good we might spend as much on looking at market research and
21:26the customer plan and and who does the people plan so what
21:32skills do they need what what learning do they have to have for them to be able to do what we expect them to do in five
21:38years because if we if they could do it today we’d be doing it today so we need to plan that and it it just never seems
21:45to align does it but I think um you know what you’ve reminded me is that I often
21:50get from uh journalists questions around equality roles or people type roles and
21:55are they woke should they you know should you have them and my argument always is actually I think organizations
22:02try to address it through a we just need someone at level X who
22:07does people or alike but actually is a really difficult and high level skill but does need to be invested in because
22:13if it goes wrong it can have a catastrophic impact on the organization
22:19and often where people think oh we invested this money and it hasn’t paid off I would argue it’s because you know
22:24so often I will get people um from sectors like the NHS for example who want some advice on you know how have
22:30you led equality agenders and I’ll say well have you looked at the governance and building it into all of your
22:36governance first because somebody has to be overseeing this accountable for it and they’ll
22:41say my brief is to arrange uh International women’s day or you know
22:46black history month or South Asian Heritage Month I’m not allowed to go near the governance so how can you
22:51expect that person to deliver outside of a particular remit of you know community
22:58and having more awareness for equality how can they push the different types of kpis on this if you’re not giving them
23:04that level that clout for which they can bring about truly meaningful inclusive
23:10cultures um I think we need to invest more and more in this actual and and I do think that the next generation of
23:17people are more interested when they’re recruiting it’s it’s more it’s more
23:22powerful to they want to know what kind of organization they’re going in how do you value people you know how does it
23:29feel to work here rather than you know what package are you offering me Etc that’s been my experience I’m sure
23:35that’s perhaps not true in every um setting but certainly I see more of it that it’s about what’s the culture
23:41Community like ethos as opposed to the outputs it’s it’s true and it’s it’s in
23:47fact there was um there was a world economic Forum report it was done in 2018 but it was about what to expect
23:53from leaders in 2023 and Beyond and that showed that in the top 10 things that people were looking for from their
23:59leaders included social impact and social influence um so it’s like really
24:05shifting into that they we’re much more focused on purpose and value and Mission
24:11and we want to work with people that align with what what’s important to us and I think that’s why we do need to
24:18invest more in it because the old traditional style of of management and
24:23Leadership doesn’t align to that unless we add in additional skills does it to
24:29be able to really bring that into its full focus and I think that authenticity that you talking about is really
24:35important because I mean we can all see examples on social media we’re so
24:40connected nowadays of leadership that looks perfect and you know the people doing
24:45the leadership are also you know putting out a really positive image of it but actually parts of it are really hard and
24:52it and it can get nasty even at times so certainly I’ve been trying to use
24:59the ways in which I have to connect to people to be a bit more transparent about the ins and outs of every day and
25:06what that can feel like yeah it’s it is I mean life life is complicated and and
25:12and gets messy I remember doing um unfortunately having to do a big redundancy program I remember the day
25:18before sitting with the board and they said are we ready and I said we’re ready as wherever going to be and they all looked horrified and we’re like what do
25:25you mean and I said well tomorrow we’re going to tell, 18800 people that their job is at risk I have no idea what that
25:33piece of information when added to whatever they’re already carrying individually is going to do I can’t ever
25:40know that I I can’t never know what’s going on I said so all I can do is hold the space for them to be angry to be
25:47upset to be hurt to to whatever emotion they’re going to go through I’ve just
25:53got to be able to sit and hold that space and and let them go through that with as much kindness and empathy as we
25:59possibly can so but you’ve got to understand that you for me one of the
26:06biggest skills I Learned was getting comfortable with uncomfortable as a leader because you will get
26:11uncomfortable very often people will tell you things that are awful or devastating or sad or you and you’ve got
26:18to help them through that um which you can only do if you really listen to them
26:25um and I think listening is a real act of kindness isn’t it listening to understand what’s going on in their world and not necessarily having to
26:32solve it for them but helping them to find a way to solve it for themselves is
26:38is that something that again you see a lot of in all the stuff you’re doing yeah I think the um line that you just
26:45used about being comfortable get comfortable with being uncomfortable in a previous um you know when I’ve been
26:51asked to comment on on things that I’ve learned in my journey that’s definitely one that I’d say you have to you can’t
26:57come into Le leadership if you just expect it’s always going to be Rosy or a particular way um you have to be
27:03comfortable in constantly dealing with uncertainty Etc but within that sometimes you you’re going to find
27:09yourself needing to be the calm for other people um and I think that’s where
27:14all this self-kindness Etc really starts to matter because the kinds of leaders that I’ve been drawn to myself and try
27:21to learn from have been those who regardless of what is going on their
27:27emotion is not just going up and down they they have been able to channel that in a more productive way and they
27:32recognize that it’s going to be more distressing but I’ve got a different influence of sphere of influence to
27:40those that I’m supporting so there’s no good in me being really emotive emotive about this which is not to say emotions
27:47shouldn’t show up in the workplace but I think that part of our role and certainly something that I try to practices no matter what stress is
27:53coming down on me from any sphere of my life how can I try to be the more
27:59calming amongst all the change that anyone might be dealing with at any time
28:04I think that’s I think that’s so true is as a leader that that ability to to kind of um regulate the the emotion to an
28:12extent like you say it’s not saying don’t bring it in but it’s it’s kind of buff buffering it a little bit I guess
28:19like um like we we do when we you do you don’t want and you know to add fuel to
28:25the fire do you you want it to be like okay that’s just that’s just going to make matters worse and actually if we
28:31can provide some calm if we can um look for the areas where where actually um we
28:38can help people see an alternate viewpoint but not in a way that makes them feel like they’re under attack it’s
28:45um those leaders that that provide that calmness that says yeah you do see a bit of emotion but it’s here versus the ones
28:52where you’re like whoa what day what day we’re going to have today is going to going to depend on what they look like
28:58when they walk through the door I mean they’re just they’re just not nice places to work that’s exactly it you
29:03don’t want to fit I mean we’ll all probably have experienced situations in leadership where you perhaps agree with
29:09something you’re having to do or not and you recognize that you have to do it but there’s no point in you emphasizing your
29:16frustration to everybody as well you have to be genuine and but I think that just means being much more mindful about
29:22how you’re communicating and what you’re communicating on a dayto day um so that
29:28you know you always retain that people are looking to you in that leadership position to be able to provide advice
29:34support guidance so I absolutely recognize I don’t always have the solutions I’m not always perhaps in
29:39agreement with something that I might be working on or aike um or helping boards
29:45Etc through but there’s a way to interact with people there’s a way to do that kindly um I think but it is as I
29:52said earlier a skill to practice it’s not that it just comes and I don’t always probably get it right myself but
29:57it’s something something that I’m mindful of that I if people when I leave an organization or I’ve left a project
30:03or something what would people think of me I’m a real Legacy person and I like to think that they’ll say things that I
30:10added contributed and valued added value to rather than well you know she was all
30:16over the place with her leadership style take regression out on colleagues or
30:22like that’s not not not what’s true to how I like to be treated and how I want to treat others in my
30:28approach and I’m I’m sure that that is not how we come across the all because when we go in intentionally thinking
30:35about what is our Legacy going to be what do we want people uh you know to to think and um I think we’re quite similar
30:41on this I always you know I always go into everything and think I want people to think I added some value whatever that was but that I added some value I
30:49was at least helpful um because that’s how I try and be that’s how I try and live my life so that’s kind of um those
30:56bits but you I think for me what’s come across through the whole conversation is it’s about being intentional it’s about
31:04thinking things through and making a conscious Choice and then when reflecting spotting that maybe that
31:10choice might not have been the best choice making a new one um but giving yourself the the self-care to not beat
31:17yourself up for the next six weeks not the fact you got you made a bad decision because actually you’ve repaired it by
31:22making a a better one I could literally chat to you all day but I’m really
31:28I think what you said is really important that because it was very much about the um not being on autopilot all
31:36the time and just that Consciousness intention and we knew that would happen when you work in an open space sorry
31:43about that my kindly if I would like anything to eat oh which is lovely and
31:48that’s the bit I love about this show is it’s called authentic achievements because we are just authentically who we
31:54are I mean I’m quite looky at the moment the dog has actually stayed on my but very often you he runs around he
32:00sits on that chair and tries to take over just give him I FST my hand like
32:05sorry but that’s kind you know but again that’s a great example senior leader mindful checking just happen to see a
32:13member of their stuff are you okay do you need anything which I love because that is what that epitomizes what we’ve
32:19been talking about today um so if I could end asking you one thing if you
32:25could go back and give your younger self a piece of advice what would it
32:32be I think it would be to and now I did this intuitively anyway but now knowing
32:38having reflected on it consciously I would say to others um especially if you don’t have a history in a you know
32:45siblings or alike who I was first generation through University and making it into a kind of this sort of
32:51professional environment is don’t let your mind and your thinking be the thing that constrains you so be open and brave
33:00to what opportunities are before you and where they might take you um I think that’s the advice I would give I love
33:07that what great advice because I think it is isn’t it it’s that it’s it’s Having the courage to just take the take
33:13the opportunity and recognize that whatever we believe is what we’re going to achieve so if we believe we can do it
33:19we will and if we believe we can’t do it we’ll find million ways to hold ourselves back so if we can I tell my
33:27friends little bo this is the day so we win the game in here before we win it out here so I love that play the play
33:32the right game play the one that’s going to bring you Joy instead of playing the one that’s gonna make you
33:40sad it’s been an absolute Joy I am so looking forward to our next catch up and thank you so much for for coming on and
33:47sharing your wisdom and kindness with us thank you for having me
33:52[Music]
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